Bad Beat Warning! How long would you hold on to this?

[webiggy]

I thought I'd throw this one out there. Upon reviewing the hand history on this, I guess I was doomed to lose this hand and the $22 I threw into it. As it turns out, I had the winner through the river (the oldest story in the World). I probably should have taken Lee Jones' advice by looking for a reason to fold this hand. This was played at 2/4 at Party.

The table is a combination of really good and bad players. I'm up and down throughout the session, and was up about $50 at the time.

I'm in the BB and am dealt T /images/graemlins/heart.gif 9 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

UTG - a strong player, limps in and is followed by 3 more. Rock in CO, who btw is having a bad streak and is on tilt raises; button and SB fold, I call along with the rest of the table - 5 see the flop with $20 in the pot.

The flop is Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif 3 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I can't say I'm thrilled with this flop because I'm always afraid of the card that beats me and there a 3 hearts better than mine out there. I'm out of position and not feeling great so I check, probably my first mistake. However, the rest of the table also checks to the tilt player who raised pre-flop. I call, UTG folds, bad player to his left raises, another bad player calls and so does tilt. I re-raise, now trying to get some information from the rest of the table. Tilt player folds after the other two bad players call.

Turn card is K /images/graemlins/spade.gif

No help to anyone on a flush draw! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I bet out and the other two players call

River is K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I bet out again, bad player #1 raises, bad player #2 calls and so do I.

Bad Player #2 put $22 and showed K /images/graemlins/heart.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif. I had a solid flush and lost when bad player #1 turns over a pair of threes to win an $80 pot with 3's full of K's. D'oh /images/graemlins/shocked.gif

So here's my thinking on this. Even though there were alot of players pre-flop, I probably should have folded this hand and saved myself $20. After flopping the flush, do you think it would have made a difference had I bet out instead of check/call/raise? I would think so, but who knows? If anything I should have just check/raised. Having said that, the winning player had about the right odds since he had 7 outs to beat a flush and gained three more when the first king hit.

BTW, when I say bad players, both played roughly 50% of their hands. After winning this nice pot Bad Player #1 ended up $1.50 ahead for the session.

Any critisism of this hand is more than welcome.

[rigoletto]

So here's my thinking on this. Even though there were alot of players pre-flop, I probably should have folded this hand and saved myself $20.

No way you should fold this preflop!

After flopping the flush, do you think it would have made a difference had I bet out instead of check/call/raise? I would think so, but who knows?

Forget about the bad beat: you should get as much money in the pot on the flop as possible. I would bet and hope that the button raises trapping any callers in between.

Your think on this hand is scewed to the weak/tight side because of your bad beat. You can't let beats like this affect the way you think the game, it'll cost you in the end!

[BigEndian]

Flop: If you check, planning on CRing, then checking is fine on this flop. But calling along like you did puts you in the company of the "bad players". You have a vulnerable flopped flush, you play this as fast and furious as you think is possible. What information are you looking for with your final re-raise? Information is pointless on this hand on the flop, you are either going to win or lose a lot of money. Just one of the special things about this type of hand.

Turn: Fine. Though by finishing the betting the way you did on the flop, you probably missed the opportunity to CR here too.

River: Fine.

None of the "bad players" played this hand badly other than the set not raising the turn perhaps. Though, when you came alive with a late raise on the flop probably clued him in for certain that he was against a made flush.

The KT player, other PF than hand selection would have hand to make a tough lay-down. Depending on how people were playing at the table, I might have called two cold at the end.

At any rate, in summary: the position you were in was much like the person who flopped the set was in. Both hands are either going to win or lose a lot of money from the hand, there's no two ways about it. But folding in either situation is not the play.

[edit] Misread where you meant fold.

- Groove

[BigEndian]

Your think on this hand is scewed to the weak/tight side because of your bad beat. You can't let beats like this affect the way you think the game, it'll cost you in the end!

Um, where was the bad beat?

- Groove

[ElSapo]

I can't say I'm thrilled with this flop because I'm always afraid of the card that beats me and there a 3 hearts better than mine out there.

You should be completely thrilled with this flop. I can't think of a better flop for you. You should be looking for every possible way to get money into the pot.

[ArchAngel71857]

1. this is a great hand against these players preflop. do not fold this.

2. this is a great flop for your hand against these players on the flop. do not check this, i woulnd't even go for a check raise here.

3. yes he drew out on you, but its not that bad of a beat. he flopped a set, thereby giving him ten outs to beat your flush (one 3, three Q's, three sixes, and three of whatever the turn card is). So although you flopped a fourth nut flush, you are only a 3:1 favorite. (ten cards out of 47 left hurt you, 37:10). So you will lose this 33% of the time.

As an example imagine if you held AJs on the button. the flop comes two of your suits. If you are getting pot odds to chase your flush draw, and you hit it, did you give someone a bad beat?

-AA

[ElSapo]

Any heart as well will lose him the pot. Two dimes has him winning it 42%.

That doesn't mean, of course, it's not a phenomenal flop.

[webiggy]

Awesome feedback from all and you are all absolutely correct.

The reason I call this a bad beat is that I'm defining from my POV in that I might have won this pot and should have played this more aggressively. I also put the warning there for those who detest some of us who whine over losing big pots. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

The weak-tight comment is exactly how I played this and that is not the kind of player I want to be.

When I first posted this, I mis-remembered my intention here. When the EP player raised, I said to myself, "he's on a fl draw trying to buy a free card on the turn", which is the reason I reraised. In either case, I agree with all of you that I should have just kept firing chips from the beginning.