Any other way to play this?

[Fitz]

Sunday party 200+15 about 110 left; the top 80 are in the money. I won my way into this one via a $26 1 table satelite on Saturday, and this is the biggest tourney I've ever played. Table has been moderately tight with a couple of big stacks being a bit pushy at times. I've got a below average stack of T5360; the blinds are 300/600. I'm in mid position with [ Kd, Ah ] I make it 2500 to go. Button pushes all in for T7200. I think about it, and decide to call. The flop comes [ As, Kc, 4s ] ; what more could I want? The turn is [ Qs ] , and the river is [ 2s ]. The big raiser shows down [ 5s 5h ] . He rivers a flush with his measly little 5 and I'm out in 111th place. I know I'm a slight dog going into this hand, but I flopped top two. This is the reason I hate these NL tourneys. I seem to find a hand similar to this in every one. I don't mean to turn this into a bad beat whine, so let me ask a serious question. Is there that much of a luck element in these tourneys? I do seem to end up in this same general position in many of the multi-table tourneys I play; I either bust out just out of the money like this one, or just inside the money. How do tweak my game to avoid this kind of thing?

Any thoughts appreciated,

Thanks,

[alekhine8]

Unless you are pretty convinced that the button has AA or KK, I dont think its a bad call. You are a coin flip or better against anything else. At that stage in the tourney, doubling up puts you in great shape to at least finish in the money.

As you can see, there is a huge element of luck in NL tournaments. Going all-in with 5's after your pretty stiff raise is pretty questionable (for all he knows, you could have AA, KK or any pair better than 5's), yet now he's got all your chips.

[PlayerA]

I think you did fine. However, since your subject asks for an alternative, maybe you should have just moved in since you were willing to call all-in. The blinds are big enough that winning them unchallenged is fine. He may have still called, but I think you're better off moving in than calling all-in. Also, you bet an amount that would have made it hard for you to protect your hand after the flop if hit something like the a or k on a two-colored flop. A caller would get 3:1 if you push in on a flop like that.

[ QUOTE ]
Is there that much of a luck element in these tourneys?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes. You have to win a few all-in coin-flips. While you want to avoid close gambles, you can't put it off indefinitely or you'll get blinded and re-raised to death.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Given your stack size of just about 9xBB, I see two clear alternatives.

Preflop, you must raise here with AK. Anything else is clearly inferior. However, I think you should've either raised to T1800 (3xBB) or raised all-in.

AK isn't AA, so winning only the blinds is just fine. You'd like to get called by a weaker Ax hand, but if they fold, no problem. Also, the all-in makes it less likely somebody with a small pair will come in, as they will know they're either in trouble or facing a coin-flip.

The advantage of betting 1/3 of your stack is that if you're called, you have enough to make a real bet on the flop and hopefully get them to fold. Thus, you can win some pots you might have lost. For example, if 55 had just called, and you then pushed in on the Q97 flop, he could easily fold in a spot where he's the significant favorite.

However, if you do raise by 1/3 of your stack, do not EVER fold to the reraise. The only way I would fold preflop after investing 1/3 of my chips is if there were multiple all-ins behind me. Only strong evidence like this that I'm facing at least KK and very possibly AA would get me to abandon a pot preflop where I've already sunk 1/3 of my stack.

Which raise is better depends upon the opponents. If they are going to call with the same hands for either raise, raise less and bet the flop. If they're going to fold a lot of hands you want them to fold for all-in, but wouldn't for 3x, then you go all-in. This is mostly small pairs, but also hands like JTs against which you're not a huge favorite.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[Ignatius]

> I've got a below average stack of T5360; the blinds are 300/ 600. I'm in mid position with [ Kd, Ah ] I make it 2500 to go.
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Move in. Your goal is to take down the blinds and you don't want to feed the hope that you might be moved off the hand and make ppl. raise you with hands they might fold otherwise.
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> Button pushes all in for T7200. I think about it, and decide to call.
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There's nothing to think here - you are committed to call, which is why you should have moved in right away.