BB hand for review.......

[Gomez22]

Paradise .50/1.00..... loose aggressive

This mostly has to do with my read on MP3... he's been stealing alot on ragged flops, blind stealing, and never showing down when pressed.

I'm in BB with: 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 raises, CO folds, button calls, SB folds, I call, MP2 calls.

FLOP: 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif

MP2 checks, MP3 bets, button calls, I call, MP2 folds.

TURN: Q /images/graemlins/club.gif

MP2 checks, MP3 bets, I raise, MP2 folds.

RIVER: 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

MP3 checks, I check.....

MP3 showed Q10 for the turned set.

My thinking: This was the first hand of MP3's I had seen since I sat down, but about the 6th pot he'd won in 40 hands..... Also, I figured the only way he would call a turn raise was if, if fact, he ahd a queen, and I still had 9 outs to make my hand......

Thoughts or comments?

[Bob T.]

Certainly worth a try. I might have followed through on the bluff on the river though, he could be calling with JT, or with a spade draw, and would fold to a river bet.

[banditbdl]

I think the key factor is whether he'll 3-bet you on the turn if he's got the Q. If he does then you just cost yourself 2 more bets then necessary to draw to your outs. But since he didn't 3-bet I think it was an decent play.

[johnb]

I don’t like the flop call. I understand your reasoning and it can be argued that by having a strong read on a player you increase your ev on a given hand that this player is in. I think that if you are going to play a hand like 8-4, even if it is suited, you are playing it as a pure move. Ie, you think you can outplay the other player. For all purposes, you are now making the move on three players, two of whom you do not have that strong of a read against. A bluff or bluff type move seldom succeeds in pot sizes of two or more.

If you do make the call and see the flop, how do you evaluate your hand given said flop? With multiple callers after the flop you have to figure that there is a good chance your flush may be no good if you hit it and you have to figure that an 8 does not help you as one player probably has a 9 or queen.

If you have a good read on a player the time to use that information with hands like 8-4 is when you are heads up or can isolate the player.

John B

[chesspain]

I think the PF call is fine--you pretty much have the pot odds immediately to throw in one more bet to try to hit the four-flush. If you do make your flush by the river, the odds of running up against a higher flush if only three of the suit are on the board are pretty slim.

I might have put a raise in on the flop, where the bets are cheaper and you have a chance to get more money from other players. However, since you have little chance of taking the pot right there and no other real way to win besides for hitting the flush, then I think that calling is fine.

Consequently, I don't like the turn raise, especially if you thought MP3 had just made a set. At this point, you're 5:1 to hit your flush, but you're only getting 1:1 or 2:1 (if MP2 coldcalls) on this extra bet. I raise on the turn when I'm drawing only if I think I can take it down right there.

Good luck and keeping plugging away!