Inappropriate Remarks at the Poker Table [Archive]

Al_Capone_Junior

11-09-2003, 03:35 PM

I think they mix more like fire and gasoline.

I used to talk to this one guy a lot about religions and their effect on society. We were friends, but I was agnostic and he's a catholic school teacher. Still, it was fascinating to talk to this guy. However, we always sat on the ends and kept our religious conversations very quiet so as not to stir up controversy. Such discussions are only trouble and can mess up an otherwise good game.

al

Joe Tall

11-09-2003, 04:33 PM

[ QUOTE ]
"Good luck all, hope you get even today.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who the hell does he think he is?? I'm much better than a break-even player!

I don't like the comment at all, what crass.

Peace,
Joe Tall

CrackerZack

11-09-2003, 04:37 PM

Jesus told me he loved me, and again the next morning, but he still hasn't called.

bunky9590

11-09-2003, 04:48 PM

Would the following fall into that category?

Hey Babe, nice checkraise, cute shoes. lol

mike l.

11-09-2003, 05:11 PM

i have a best friend who is a christian (i am too). at the 9-18 at commerce he befriended a guy who was a very miserable (at the moment) gambling addict. the guy was really down and out and sad about his compulsive ways. my friend, later in the session (surely after taking plenty of the guys chips), went to his car and brought the guy aside and gave him one of the bibles he carries around in his car (he gives them out to beggers along with taco bell gift certificates) and told him that this is what he needs to get him through his problem. the guy took it and was grateful.

Ulysses

11-09-2003, 05:34 PM

Did he give the guy any Taco Bell gift certificates?

Mason Malmuth

11-09-2003, 05:57 PM

Hi Mike:

This is one of the most deceptive claims of people who want to spread the word. The fact is, that no matter what the religion, new recruits, or people who are down and out and who feel helped by someone in a religious way, are grateful. If only Christianity could make this claim then your statement would have the implication that you are implying.

It use to be that you could go to the airport and see a bunch of strange looking people selling flowers. Most of these people would tell you that if it wasn't for this new religion that they had found their lives wuld be an abomination. Similar claims are made by virtually every religion.

By the way, with this being said, if the gambling addict that you mention above is able to change his ways then that's great.

Best wishes,
mason

Al_Capone_Junior

11-09-2003, 06:12 PM

I too would like to have some taco bell gift certificates. Please arrange for me to have some counseling regarding my compulsive and degenerate ways. I might not stop being agnostic, but I will definitely order some taco supremes and maybe a couple of bean burritos.

al

Rocco17

11-09-2003, 06:44 PM

He could've been referring to Ferguson. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Rushmore

11-09-2003, 06:45 PM

Ummmm, who cares?

If a player had sneezed, and the Offendor had said "God bless you," should the atheists at the table file a class action lawsuit for emotional damages?

Truth is, when someone makes an inane comment (which is exactly what I consider the comment you describe), I sneer at them and tell them to go to hell.

Maybe this is why nobody ever invites me over for Christmas, Hannukah, or Kwaanza dinner.

southerndog

11-09-2003, 07:58 PM

Babe,

I live in the south and have to deal with this crap all of the time. I know where you're coming from, a poker table isn't the place for Jesus comments.

I have a bumper sticker that says "Jesus Loves My Drinking"

rharless

11-09-2003, 08:35 PM

I dunno... I expect to meet all sorts at the poker table (I know you do too) and as one simple comment, it doesn't seem so out of line to me. Much more tolerable than the people who are salesmen and try to sell me their crap. Or more tolerable than the poker geniuses who tell me that my chips are "easy money."

Obviously he targets a fairly non-receptive audience when he chooses to make a religious statement in a gaming atmosphere, but so it goes. I don't personally find it offensive or inappropriate.

Clarkmeister

11-09-2003, 09:00 PM

Seriously...who gives a flip? Its not like he said, "Jesus loves you unless you are part of a heathen faith, in which case you shall burn for all eternity as you deserve". Worrying about stuff like this is a major problem with our society today.

Dynasty

11-09-2003, 09:38 PM

Babe's problem definitely struck me as over-the-top politically correctness.

brad

11-09-2003, 10:20 PM

socialism is essentially womens work.

you just cant stand that you cant control someone so you want to ban all discussion of anything you cant control.

youll never get my guns b****.

Ray Zee

11-09-2003, 10:27 PM

i dont like that crap either. it is out of place but idiots do idioctic things. for those that arent offended how about if he had said may allah give 40 virgins.

Clarkmeister

11-09-2003, 10:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
i dont like that crap either. it is out of place but idiots do idioctic things. for those that arent offended how about if he had said may allah give 40 virgins.

[/ QUOTE ]

Praise be! With 40 of them I'm almost assured that a few are hotties! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

mike l.

11-09-2003, 11:13 PM

if you would actually eat something from taco bell then you have much deeper problems than god can solve.

mike l.

11-09-2003, 11:15 PM

"If only Christianity could make this claim then your statement would have the implication that you are implying."

i didnt mean to imply anything. for all i know the guy tossed the bible in the trash on his way out of the cardroom.

i agree with what you say about the needs religion meets in a lot of people.

mike l.

11-09-2003, 11:22 PM

"Ummmm, who cares?... Truth is, when someone makes an inane comment (which is exactly what I consider the comment you describe), I sneer at them and tell them to go to hell."

it sure sounds like you care.

even if his beliefs are an entire sham and nonsensical, etc, you might recognize that the intention of his comments were to spread love and good (at least as he sees it). so why meet that with a sneer and mean comment? if he doesnt do anything to hurt you, why react violently?

Mason Malmuth

11-09-2003, 11:56 PM

Sure you did.

One of the ways the faith is brought to sad individuals is to argue how much in the way of life improvement similar conversions have meant to other people. Of course it's is never pointed out that this happens in virtually all religions.

MM

Mason Malmuth

11-10-2003, 12:00 AM

Hi Babe:

Over the years I have heard many annoying things and met many annoying people at the poker table. My experience is that when you finally get rid of one of these things (or people) there is another one to take its place. But despite all of this, poker is a great game and is still worth playing. So the answer is not to let it bother you.

Best wishes,
Mason

HDPM

11-10-2003, 12:32 AM

Yeah, but do you remember the scholar who found that "virgins" was mistranslated and what was promised were "raisins?" /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

andyfox

11-10-2003, 12:40 AM

Well I've certainly heard many more inappropriate remarks at the poker table. While there may be some John Cole's who play poker, there are many more Amarillo Slim's. I'm never surprised by anytning I hear at the poker table, since most of the players are men, and we are generally ignorant pigs, with nothing more on our minds, if anything, than food, poker, sex and power. Want to know what we're thinking? I can tell you: basically, absolutely nothing.

Jesus played backgammon, anyway, not poker.

mike l.

11-10-2003, 01:06 AM

"One of the ways the faith is brought to sad individuals is to argue how much in the way of life improvement similar conversions have meant to other people."

no really, i honestly would guess the guy threw it in the trash. i just thought it was interesting that my friend had the balls to do it, and it was a comparable act to the one babe pointed out.

mike l.

11-10-2003, 01:10 AM

"Jesus played backgammon, anyway, not poker."

and he was far too passive with the cube.

PiquetteAces

11-10-2003, 01:58 AM

The purpose isn't to offend any non-christian . That is why , there is no problem .

What about if the man's quote was : " merry chrismas everybody ! " ?

I have seen a lot worse than that at a poker table .

- jpp

mosch

11-10-2003, 02:33 AM

If somebody gave me a Bible, I'd open it to Psalm 137:9, and say that God clearly agrees with me, that it was right to beat my children.

Or perhaps Leviticus 27:3-7, to prove that men are worth more than women, old people are worth less than middle-aged, and young children are worth nearly nothing.

If warned about the potential for eternal damnation, I'd point to Job 7:9, which states that there is no afterlife.

mosch

11-10-2003, 02:39 AM

Praise Allah, who is the light of the heavens, may he shine his light and open your eyes to see that non-christians are not terrorists.

Good exists in all cultures, as does evil.

mike l.

11-10-2003, 03:18 AM

most people who give out bibles would LOVE to give one to you because they would love to try and convince you about how youre misreading it and wrong. that's why i dont give out bibles, i cant stand discussions like that.

it is interesting to note, however, that all your examples are from the old testament. when jesus came he erased all the silly stuff like sacrificing animals, etc. the only old testament stuff that applies is the stuff jesus didnt directly contradict.

now im sure you can find some new testament stuff that will seem absurd (for starters the principle that some criminal who was nailed to a cross is the son of god and the savior of the world), but i wanted to point out the problem with using old testament as a denouncement of christianity.

Tyler Durden

11-10-2003, 03:41 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I have a bumper sticker that says "Jesus Loves My Drinking"

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a t-shirt that says "I talk to Jesus" and then underneath it the shirt says "He's my Mexican Gardner."

Well I don't really own it but I want to buy it.

http://www.boffensive.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=boffensive&Prod uct_Code=RELGRD&Category_Code=R

baggins

11-10-2003, 04:45 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If somebody gave me a Bible, I'd open it to Psalm 137:9, and say that God clearly agrees with me, that it was right to beat my children.

Or perhaps Leviticus 27:3-7, to prove that men are worth more than women, old people are worth less than middle-aged, and young children are worth nearly nothing.

If warned about the potential for eternal damnation, I'd point to Job 7:9, which states that there is no afterlife.

[/ QUOTE ]

and anyone with a clue would laugh at you pulling verses from the Old Testament out of context to prove a point about biblical law when everybody knows that Christ in the New Testament came to fulfill the law so that we would be free from enslavement to it.

i just love when people start throwing Old Testament stuff at me to try and prove a point about the bible... [/sarcasm]

Mason Malmuth

11-10-2003, 05:17 AM

Hi Mike:

Let me give you one example of something from the new testament that I consider absurb.

Mathew, Verse 14: "Out of Egypt I call my son." This refers to a baby Jesus, after being taken to Egypt so that King Herrod doesn't kill him, that it is okay to come back.

Now according to my NIV bible this is a quote from Hosea Verse 11 where you read: "When Israel was a child, I loved him, and out of Egypt I called my son." Of course this refers to Moses leading the exodus from Egypt.

By the way, as for the sacrificing animals, my understanding is that according to the old testament there are three ways to achieve atonement. They are prayer, charity, and animal sacrifice with he animal thing being the least important. I also understand that it says very clearly that the ability for animal sacrifice will disappear and that was written many years before the new testament. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than myself can fill in the details.

Best wishes,
Mason

Mason Malmuth

11-10-2003, 05:34 AM

Hi P_Aces:

Let's suppose you're wrong. That is, let's suppose the remark was intended to offend, or a player at the table says something else or does something that you find offensive (and this act doesn't have to have anything to do with religion). That's part of poker and if you can't handle it, you're not going to be very successful.

There's a view among some poker players, especially those relatively new to the game, that poker is some sort of chivalrous activity where people sit around a table and try to outwit each other. Well, poker certainly has that element, and of course that's much of the attraction, but it also has its hustling side. And much of this hustling is done by those who also understand how to play quite well.

Now this doesn't mean that you shouldn't play, but it does mean that you need to be tough when you do play and not let things bother you even though they ordinarily would. So when our PokerBabe says "Look good, play good," even though I think this is a great motto and code for us, be aware that there are some out there who while they may have the play good part down, they certainly violate the look good. And again, to be very successful at poker, you need to be able to handle this.

Best wishes
mason

Rushmore

11-10-2003, 09:51 AM

Sorry, Mike. I was joking. I try not to talk too much at the table, if you can believe that. I am pretty well oblivious to all of the moronic chatter that goes on around me at the poker table. Particularly the type of moronic chatter that involves an absolute disregard for common sense, and a hypocrisy so obvious that a monkey could discern it.

scalf

11-10-2003, 10:18 AM

/images/graemlins/blush.gifwarning to you oh gr8 pokerbabe(#1)..lol..

i am training my 3 day old daughter to become pro poker female player of year in 2026...lol

she may then supplant you as pokerbabe...but not the pokerbabe...look good play goodhave a good heart..

good luck from anna grace..

/images/graemlins/wink.gif /images/graemlins/laugh.gif /images/graemlins/cool.gif /images/graemlins/smile.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Al_Capone_Junior

11-10-2003, 10:26 AM

You may be right, but then I already admitted to being a degnerate.

al

PokerBabe(aka)

11-10-2003, 10:43 AM

CONGRATS on the NEW BABY GIRL /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

We will call her PokerBabe-ette!...

/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Al_Capone_Junior

11-10-2003, 11:13 AM

For those offended, Clark and I will take the virgins and leave with them so you won't be offended anymore.

It is QUITE true tho that anything christian oriented would be taken VERY lightly by most people in the USA, but anything islam oriented would probably be viewed as an act of terrorism, and the infidel would probably be cast out of the table. It's EXACTLY the same thing, but people's warped perspective on the whole aspect of religion makes them think it's totally different. This is due to the current unpopularity of that part of the world (and certain people in it) that has a high % of islamic people. If someone said something Budda oriented, people would probably view it with passive disinterest.

al

JTrout

11-10-2003, 11:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
One of the ways the faith is brought to sad individuals is to argue how much in the way of life improvement similar conversions have meant to other people. Of course it's is never pointed out that this happens in virtually all religions.

MM

[/ QUOTE ]
.
So I guess the point of this is: no matter which kind you find, Get Religion! /images/graemlins/wink.gif

RollaJ

11-10-2003, 12:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Praise be! With 40 of them I'm almost assured that a few are hotties!

[/ QUOTE ]

There is a reason they are virgins http://www.rez.supelec-rennes.fr/campagne2001/breizhilliens/fat-woman.jpg

mosch

11-10-2003, 12:37 PM

As far as the controversial stuff being Old Testament, Hebrews 9:13 states that animal sacrifice is a required rite, Luke 18:29-30 promises good things for men who leave their wives and children for the Lord and Matthew 5:17 states that Jesus does not revoke the laws of the Old testament.

Religion plays a vital part in many people's lives, mine included, but I believe the best ministry to live a good life, do good deeds and only minister to somebody if they ask for it. Giving a man a Bible is of little use if they have no beliefs, and can be insulting if they hold differing beliefs.

ChipWrecked

11-10-2003, 01:23 PM

Congrats Scalf!

She can play my six-week old in a heads-up freeze out for the title.

My girl already prefers the Empire interface, four-color deck.

ChipWrecked

11-10-2003, 01:26 PM

I lived in the South for thirty years, I understand. The witnessers taught me my favorite panhandler foil:

when I'm asked to give change etc., I respond with something along the lines of, "Have you accepted Jesus as your personal saviour?"
They can't run the other way fast enough /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Gamblor

11-10-2003, 01:54 PM

"May the peace of Buddha be upon you"

"I'LL KILL YOU!"

Hmmm.

Al_Capone_Junior

11-10-2003, 02:41 PM

You have a good point. As religion people go, buddists are the least offensive to me.

It's a toss-up between islamic jihad-ers and jehovah's witnesses tho as to who are the most offensive tho.

al

Philuva

11-10-2003, 03:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So I guess the point of this is: no matter which kind you find, Get Religion!

[/ QUOTE ]

No, I think this actually means get structure. Most people that are sad individuals who are at low points in their lives that would be helped by religion, would also be helped by a 12-step program, the military, etc. Really these people are lacking structure.

Philuva

11-10-2003, 03:12 PM

[ QUOTE ]
what about..

Jesus saves! ...

and Esposito scores on the rebound!

[/ QUOTE ]

I was just going to write that. Although, I would have used Gretzky instead of Espo.

Dynasty

11-10-2003, 05:16 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i dont like that crap either. it is out of place but idiots do idioctic things. for those that arent offended how about if he had said may allah give 40 virgins.

[/ QUOTE ]

Praise be! With 40 of them I'm almost assured that a few are hotties! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting 40 virgins sounds a lot better than it would actually be. It would be fun at first. But, after the first three or four virgins, you're going to start wanting a woman who knows what she's doing.

brad

11-10-2003, 05:22 PM

'By the way, as for the sacrificing animals, my understanding is that according to the old testament there are three ways to achieve atonement. They are prayer, charity, and animal sacrifice with he animal thing being the least important. I also understand that it says very clearly that the ability for animal sacrifice will disappear and that was written many years before the new testament. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than myself can fill in the details.'

well i know that the destruction of the temple in whatever 77ad or wahtever was reason sacrifice was stopped. actually a cool hour long history channel show on it. (sacrifices only allowed in temple by hereditary priest caste).

after fall of temple prayer replaced sac. and scholarism replaced hereditary priest caste.

also soemthing to do with bibical remission of sin or whatever requires shedding of blood.

Ulysses

11-10-2003, 05:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Getting 40 virgins sounds a lot better than it would actually be. It would be fun at first. But, after the first three or four virgins, you're going to start wanting a woman who knows what she's doing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, uh, still sounds pretty good to me.

Roy Munson

11-10-2003, 05:35 PM

I had heard that Chris Ferguson was friendly but I didn't realize he loved everyone.

brad

11-10-2003, 05:35 PM

'the only old testament stuff that applies is the stuff jesus didnt directly contradict.'

can you point out any instance where he makes such a contradiction? seriously.

ok sermon on the mount, turn the other cheek, maybe.

but seriously though.

Roy Munson

11-10-2003, 05:37 PM

Then there is the classic Mojo Nixon song "Are You Drinking With Me Jesus".

J_V

11-10-2003, 07:03 PM

you guys are making quite a duo. Of course this is over top, maybe it's annoying, but who cares? The guy quoting rounders is annoying. That you be inappropriate.

J_V

11-10-2003, 07:06 PM

nm.

Phat Mack

11-11-2003, 02:51 AM

Praise be! With 40 of them I'm almost assured that a few are hotties!

If they're hotties, why are they still virgins?

But, after the first three or four virgins, you're going to start wanting a woman who knows what she's doing.

After three or four? I've always suspected you were a good poker player, Dynasty, but with this kind of patience you must be among the best! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

bomblade

11-11-2003, 04:07 AM

I always considered a highly inappropriate remark to be "and most important Rape and Pillage" or "Kill Whitey". Telling me that Jesus loves me makes me chuckle, but if you get offended by this, than that's on you. It's not pushing religion on anyone, in any way. If someone told me Allah or Mohammad loved me, I wouldn't be offended.

NutCrackerr

11-11-2003, 12:38 PM

I'm much more offended by the "Good luck all" portion of the comment, allthough not too bad in this situation seeing how the person was leaving.

What really irratates me is the people that sit down and wish everyone good luck. When I sit down to the table I hope that everyone else has horrible luck! When they wish me good luck either they are 1) a good player and are outright lying to me or 2)they're just plain stupid (which is not so bad as long as I get their chips)!

Fitz

11-11-2003, 12:45 PM

As long as there are gut shot straight draws and runner runner flushes, there will be prayer/religion at the poker table... lol. Of course God doesn't hear us, he is too busy with the guys at the crap table begging for the hard 8.

Duke

11-11-2003, 01:48 PM

Are you talking about the implication that everyone in the game is a losing player? I think it was a rather clever way to say that a group of people suck at poker.

I think the most inappropriate remark is: I want to see that hand.

~D

Gamblor

11-11-2003, 03:00 PM

First temple destroyed in 77 AD.

When the second Jewish Temple was destroyed by the Romans, they expelled all the Jews out of Israel (which is the basis for the Zionist movement, I might add).

In exile, Jews turned to prayer instead of sacrifice, substituting one service of prayers (Shachrit, Mincha, and Ma'ariv for morning, afternoon, and evening respectively) for each sacrifice that would have been held in Temple times. The temple was holy ground and the only legitimate location for a true sacrifice to God. The Western wall is the last remaining piece of the temple destroyed in 576 AD.

The only thing preventing the reconstruction of the temple (given that the blueprints were reconstructed by archaeologists) is the small problem of the Muslim Haram al-Sharif. They would simply go ape-poo if the Jews wanted to rebuild the temple. Amazing though, considering Israel's military superiority and evil occupier colonist yada yada yada, that they haven't just taken it back and started construction. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

But that is most certainly a topic for another forum.

Gamblor

11-11-2003, 03:05 PM

God explicitly states in the old testament that he will never send someone to change the sabbath laws - only he and he alone will change them.

Jesus comes along, decides sabbath will be sunday.

Then he got a spanking and was sent to bed without dinner.
/images/graemlins/grin.gif

baggins

11-11-2003, 04:13 PM

Jesus also claims to be God's son, and to be acting in full accordance and power of that position. in essence, Jesus IS God, and therefore Jesus can change Sabbath laws. according to the teachings of the New Testament.

Gamblor

11-11-2003, 04:45 PM

So I get to make vital business decisions because my dad is the CEO?

Gamblor

11-11-2003, 04:50 PM

Actually, it's not prayer, charity and sacrifice.

It's "T'Fila, Tz'daka, and T'shuva"

Prayer, Charity, and repentance.

Repentance refers to the Yom Kippur fast.

"Al shlosha d'varim ha'olam omed - al hatorah, v'al ha'avoda, v'al g'milut chasadim"

"The world stands on three pillars - on the Torah, on hard work, and on righteous acts"

baggins

11-11-2003, 05:47 PM

If the CEO says so, yes.

Local custom in those parts at that time held that the eldest son could make business decisions in the name of his father. it was part of his birthright. it was part and parcel with being the eldest son. so maybe President, Founder, and 100% Shareholder might be a better analogy than CEO.

Also, if you die and then are raised from death, i think that your claims to deity should be considered seriously.

Gamblor

11-11-2003, 07:11 PM

Obviously as a Jew I could dispute all those claims...

I'm of the opinion that he was at best a wise, good man who simply was taken a little too seriously by some of his buddies.

Specifically, Mark and John.

Nonetheless, your beliefs are yours and mine are mine.

Timer

11-11-2003, 07:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]

Jesus comes along, decides sabbath will be sunday.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the Middle East, isn't sabbath on a Saturday?

Mason Malmuth

11-11-2003, 08:36 PM

Hi Gamblor:

This is not quite the point I was making. My understanding is that somewhere in The Old Testament it says that the means for sacrifice will be unavailable for "many years." Also, notice that everything in The Old Testament was written well befor the year 77.

Perhaps someone can be more specific than I have been above or correct me if I have it wrong.

Best wishes,
Mason

Ted Geisel

11-11-2003, 10:52 PM

You say that your best friend waited until he had taken full advantage of the other guy's problem (getting all his chips first) and THEN proceeded to "help".

What is that, "tough love" ???

When he is not playing poker, does he also roll drunks in the alley and leave them a religious tract ?

Abe

11-12-2003, 12:01 AM

Hi PokerBabe!

What a nice little thread you have started here. Better get my thoughts in before the thread sets new records for number of views or responses.

Based just on the face value of your description, I think the statement was borderline--almost inappropriate/offensive. My guess is that he was just talking without thinking and meant no harm. He probably was not trying to insult people or trying to spread his religion.

Now, some situational things could change my view of this. For example, was he obviously (as a non Christian) making his statement to insult those who were. Or, was he saying it to a table obviously full of Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Buddist people? Or, was he saying it to one specific person at the table -- in these times, possibly as some anti-Muslim talk. I would be offended if someone did any of these type things.

Was this a "one time" statement, or does the guy make a practice of saying things like this?

I agree with you about religion and poker. I can't think of any reason to bring up a religious topic in a public cardroom.

So--what kind of feedback have you been getting from the LV regulars on this topic?

mike l.

11-12-2003, 12:04 AM

George Rice

11-12-2003, 12:24 AM

I think I saw her on Staten Island one day.

baggins

11-12-2003, 04:16 AM

the reason that somebody would dare to bring religion to the holy green felt is because their Faith compels them to share what they see as good news with other people.

they mean it as no harm.

how can it possibly hurt you to have somebody tell you that their God loves you? at the very worst, it is an empty statement if you don't believe in all that. how on earth can that be considered offensive?

why is it that the mere mention of the name Jesus makes people so defensive? nobody bats an eyelash at the name Buddha, or Vishnu, or Mohammed, or Moses, or Abraham, or Gilgamesh... but say the name Jesus Christ and people want to rip your eyelids off and fondue them with the blood of virgins...

Gamblor

11-12-2003, 09:58 AM

For Muslims, it got moved Friday. I am not so educated about Islam, but I believed it was for the simple reason that they wanted their own day, not the same day as Judaism and Christianity.

For Jews, it's Saturday and has been since day 1.

ArchAngel71857

11-12-2003, 12:14 PM

I was unaware Jesus changed the Sabbath to Sunday. I thought that early Christians started worshipping on Sunday because that was the day of the resurrection (the day after the Sabbath. Unless I am mistaken (and please tell me if I am) Jesus never outright changes the Sabbath day. I know many times where he gets in trouble from the Pharisees for "working on the Sabbath."

Also, Since you are Jewish, I was wondering if you are familiar with the column Tuesday Morning Quarterback that used to be on ESPN.com. The writer got fired for making some "Anti-Semetic" claims. Was wondering if you read them or how they were interpreted from a Jewish perspective.

-AA

HDPM

11-12-2003, 01:13 PM

Well, in this country people are more comfortable saying "Jesus loves you" than something about Allah or Mohammed or whomever, so you see it more. And typically Jews don't proselytize so they are not going around saying "Observe the Commandments and you'll be happier." So in this country it is mostly Christians who would say something like that in public. And like it or not, many people see it as offensive. Saying it can be interpreted as calling their beliefs into question or insulting them if they don't believe. I will assume this guy meant well and all, so I wouldn't get all bent out of shape about it. I would prefer, however, if people refrained form this kind of talk in public. And I admit I get somewhat uncomfortable when people talk about religion when they don't know me or the context is wrong. One example, I had a life insurance person come to my office uninvited. (We had previously met at her office and discussed some insurance options.) In addition to barging in, she started talking about how God affected her decisionmanking on something or another. Yeah, she meant nothing by it, but it was inappropriate in the context. Whatever her religion is, which I am assuming is some form of Christianity, although I am not sure. Religion is a personal deal and you have to be a little reserved in terms of who you talk to about it. And even then there are limits that you have to think about, depending on how well you know the person and the context of the discussion, etc...

RollaJ

11-12-2003, 01:32 PM

[ QUOTE ]
For Jews, it's Saturday and has been since day 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

I beg to differ, I believe it was from day 7 (or day 6 in the evening) /images/graemlins/tongue.gif /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Gamblor

11-12-2003, 01:36 PM

Unless I am mistaken (and please tell me if I am) Jesus never outright changes the Sabbath day. I know many times where he gets in trouble from the Pharisees for "working on the Sabbath."

This certainly puts some doubt into my mind, but I always accepted my position as fact, having grown up in the religious Jewish day school system. I lead a somewhat sheltered life in terms of other religions. We were always taught to think along the lines of: Gentiles believe what they believe, and we believe what we believe. But don't let them convince you you are wrong, and don't try to convince them.

In fact, anyone forcibly converted to Judaism is not considered a real Jew. They have to convert of their own free will, without solicitation. Further evidence that radicals like Jews for Jesus are not Jewish.

Also, Since you are Jewish, I was wondering if you are familiar with the column Tuesday Morning Quarterback that used to be on ESPN.com. The writer got fired for making some "Anti-Semetic" claims. Was wondering if you read them or how they were interpreted from a Jewish perspective.

As far as Easterbrook goes, I think ESPN was more interested in maintaining good viewer relations, and they overestimated the sensitivity Jews have in detecting anti-semitism. Frankly, I'm so used to it I don't care. Being an ex-patriate Israeli, I see so many lies and crap floating around about Israeli policy that it makes it impossible to argue.

That being said, I don't see any reason why he needed to bring up the fact that Eisner and Weinstein are Jewish at all.

What does their Jewishness have to do with the violence in Kill Bill? The problem is not his specific anti-semitism - it's a societal problem, where from day one (and this is only partially self-inflicted) Jews are Jews, not Americans, Canadians, etc. etc.

I'm reminded of a quote by Franz Grillparzer, the Austrian author:
"Finally and long overdue, your people, oppressed and disgraced by hatred and maliciousness, have achieved justice: now you enjoy full citizen's rights, but you'll remain Jews nonetheless."

You want to know why many Jews are always on the lookout for anything remotely anti-semitic?

The Canary in Europe (http://www.bigeye.com/jj042802.htm)

ArchAngel71857

11-12-2003, 02:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Unless I am mistaken (and please tell me if I am) Jesus never outright changes the Sabbath day. I know many times where he gets in trouble from the Pharisees for "working on the Sabbath."

This certainly puts some doubt into my mind, but I always accepted my position as fact, having grown up in the religious Jewish day school system. I lead a somewhat sheltered life in terms of other religions. We were always taught to think along the lines of: Gentiles believe what they believe, and we believe what we believe. But don't let them convince you you are wrong, and don't try to convince them.

In fact, anyone forcibly converted to Judaism is not considered a real Jew. They have to convert of their own free will, without solicitation. Further evidence that radicals like Jews for Jesus are not Jewish.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, i was interested if you had anything in the NT or otherwise to use to support your statement. I am fairly positive (but open to discussion and debate) that he never outwardly says "stop the sabbath on saturday and move it to sunday." funny about the comment that it has beensince day 7.

About easterbrook, my main concern was that ESPN fired Easterbrook for comments on Michael Eisner (CEO of Disney, parent company of ESPN) and not so much for his comments on Judiaism. Because it was a blog, i don't think he had time to reread what he wrote and edit it to more clearly get his point across. he was deeply apologetic and i think genuine. I know this NFL season is suffering with the absence of TMQ. I also think that with the recent Rush Limbaugh huzzah, ESPN reacted quicker than they would have if Rush hadn't dhappened. thanks for you valuable input.

-AA

phish

11-12-2003, 03:03 PM

Compared with all the other things that are said at a poker table (swearing at dealers, criticizing opponents, inappropriate talk during a hand), if all everybody ever sau was something to the effect of 'God Bless', we'd have a very nice poker environment. And I'm an atheist.

ChipWrecked

11-12-2003, 03:30 PM

I was taught by the Methodists that the Christian Sabbath was moved to Sunday because of the Resurrection.

Also, I believe it's in The Late Great Planet Earth the author posits that the rebuilding of the Temple will trigger the seven-year countdown to Armageddon.

felson

11-12-2003, 04:54 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I was taught by the Methodists that the Christian Sabbath was moved to Sunday because of the Resurrection.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, this is correct. Jesus did not personally change the date of Sabbath observance; this was a decision of the early church.

[ QUOTE ]

Also, I believe it's in The Late Great Planet Earth the author posits that the rebuilding of the Temple will trigger the seven-year countdown to Armageddon.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just want to observe here that not all Christians support this view (though many do, mostly American Christians).

Philuva

11-12-2003, 05:42 PM

Please. People get worked up all the time when Allah, etc. are mentioned. It just so happens that Christ is mentioned a lot more in this country.

The reason I find most religious pontification offensive is the notion that if I do not accept that faith I am dammned to eternity in Hell.

Well, that sounds like an open minded philosophy to me. Sign me up!!

So let me get this right, even if you are the most pious monk in the world living a sin free life, if he doesn't accept Jesus Christ as his savior, he is going to Hell??

So when people start preaching about it, it tends to get me on edge. I assume others as well.

I know this true for some other religions as well, I just used the Christain religion as an example, again b/c it is the most common in the US.

ArchAngel71857

11-12-2003, 07:10 PM

Yeah thats what I thought.

As for TLGPE, ummmmmm. This is one of a variety of interpretations on Revelations. I read it. It's not bad.

It's not good, but it's not bad.

-AA

Victor

11-12-2003, 08:48 PM

If you werent an Athiest you might not think "God Bless You" is pleasant. i. e. I dont think Osama likes that remark.

Wake up CALL

11-12-2003, 11:29 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If you werent an Athiest you might not think "God Bless You" is pleasant. i. e. I dont think Osama likes that remark.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm an atheist and it is no more offensive to me than if someone said "Santa Claus bless you" when I sneezed. Being blessed by a cartoon-like character may be amusing but hardly offensive.

Wad

11-12-2003, 11:39 PM

"Jesus loves you".

[ QUOTE ]
I think this remark was highly inappropriate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would think anyone who sits in any 30/60 game would have thick enough skin to not let this bother them.

[ QUOTE ]
I also think that poker and religion mix about as well as oil and water.

[/ QUOTE ]

Along with many other things.....IMO

/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

baggins

11-13-2003, 04:24 AM

i hear what you're saying man. believe me, i do.

but, by the same token, if you don't believe in it at all, then the hell thing shouldn't really bother you, because that's not real, either.

also, by saying "God bless you", or "Jesus loves you" nobody is judging you or condemning you to hell. that's a preconceived stereotype you project on other people's Faith. if, when I say "Jesus Loves You", you assume that i am really asserting your condemnation to Hell, then it is YOU who are misjudging, not me. for i have no power to condemn anybody. and Jesus is not about condemnation, but reconciliation. so, if your misunderstanding of the message of Christ's love offends you, that is solely your own issue to deal with.

of course, i don't expect you to know that Christ's message is reconciliation, not condemnation. unfortunately, the most visible people who wave the banner of Christianity can be the most vicious abusers of the name of Christ. for that, I am sorry, and do not blame you.

brad

11-13-2003, 04:32 AM

yeah will sacs resume if temple rebuilt?

slavic

11-13-2003, 04:51 AM

I also think that poker and religion mix about as well as oil and water.

amen

Gamblor

11-13-2003, 10:08 AM

yes and no.

But it's not so simple, there are a million things that have to happen after the temple is built before you can use it, and even if it were to be built, it would probably be impossible to use for a long time until various tasks are completed.

Short Answer is here (http://www.faqs.org/faqs/judaism/FAQ/05-Worship/section-75.html)

More in-depth Answer (http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/qorbanot.htm)

dogsballs

11-15-2003, 12:39 AM

I work as a scientific diver and one of our boats has a pilot who's fairly devout 7th Day Adventist; great guy though. Since I know him well, he's very occasionally brought The Book out on a trip. One day Nancy, our institution's Dive Safety Officer happened to be on the trip and he brought out his bible (I must have looked like a severe hangover case that day or something - that's when he usually mentions such stuff). Anyway, flicking through, I found by chance a quote that said exactly - "divers weights are an abomination."

Still don't know what it means at all, but it totally cracked me up at the time and I told him he'd better not show it to the DSO or she'll have to disband the whole department.

I think at the time he'd been telling me I shouldn't be eating lobster or anything scaleless from the sea.

baggins

11-15-2003, 01:32 AM

divers is an archaic word and in this context it means 'innacurate, false, misleading'. basically, it means that using doctored or fixed weights in business transaction to cheat your customers is a bad, dishonest thing to do, and God frowns upone it.

but the humor is still there. good one!

GuyOnTilt

11-15-2003, 02:35 AM

One of the ways the faith is brought to sad individuals is to argue how much in the way of life improvement similar conversions have meant to other people. Of course it's is never pointed out that this happens in virtually all religions.

I agree with you that pragmatism is probably the main reason most people stick with a certain religion. I personally am a "born again" Christian. When I am forced to examine the impetus of my religious beliefs, I have to admit that it is based purely on personal experience and the faith that those personal experiences are the result of God working in my life. All of our lives are based on perspective. There's nothing concrete about human emotions or beliefs; they're completely subjective and biased based on our personal experiences. That we do not all agree should be expected.

This is what I believe. If you do not, that is fine; I can't expect you to believe what I believe. But to be intolerant of me vocalizing my beliefs isn't right. To quote the book of James, "Faith without works is dead." If I truly believe, then I won't be able to not act on my faith. If I were to remain silent and inactive in regard to my Christianity, I would have to question my faith. If I make a casual comment relating to my religioius beliefs, am I really being rude or inappropriate?

I think it should be asked that mainstream America be just as tolerant of Christianity as they demand Christianity be of other minority viewpoints.

GoT

Alobar

11-17-2003, 05:50 AM

[ QUOTE ]
If you werent an Athiest you might not think "God Bless You" is pleasant. i. e. I dont think Osama likes that remark.

[/ QUOTE ]

Last time I checked, Osama believed in God too. He might take offense to Jesus loves tho /images/graemlins/smile.gif I'm agnostic but would a christian get mad if someone got up for the table and said "may Alah bless you?".....Unfortunatly Im guessing the answer is prolly "yes", which is why the world is as F'ed up as it is. Everyone is too scared that thier precious little belief structure is wrong, and so they cling to it with zealot like conviction and try to remove everyone who thinks differently