Dilemma from last nights home game...

[chesspain]

Last night I hosted a five-handed home game with 1/2 limits, and I was the big winner with a net gain of $56 when we quit after four hours. So what's the problem? When I went to cash out everyone, the bank was short exactly fifteen dollars /images/graemlins/confused.gif.

After counting and recounting everyone's chips, we then retraced everyone's buy-in, and realized that the cash in the bank was correct.

Consequently, we realized that the only logical explanation was that I inadvertantly gave out three extra $5 blue chips at the outset among one or more players. At this point, we were all somewhat stymied. One player began to state "...well, we could try to split the shortage up proportionally based on how much we ended up with..."

...at which point, the higher stakes player, who had never played at my home before but had hosted a multitable tourney that all of us attended, began to sputter and hem and haw. Since he had a net gain of $38 dollars, and had received the most blue chips to start given that he had the biggest buy-in, I thought it would have been nice of him to make some sort of a gesture to help cover me. Ultimately, however, I have no idea who received extra chips at the outset.

But since the higher stakes player balked at receiving any less than his full chip count, and I didn't want to be a jerk, I just said "It was my bank, I'll eat it."

On a positive note, one of the other guys who was owed back thirty-eight dollars said "Just give me back thirty-five."

In this situation, since I was likely the one who screwed up, was it proper for me to eat this shortage?

I appreciate all feedback on this.


P.S. Given the inevitable commotion that always occurs at the outset of a home game when everyone is throwing money at me, I may in the future presort and package up a bunch of bags with, say, forty dollars in the small denomination chips, which will allow me to focus on the easy task of counting out the higher denomination chips to complete everyone's buy-in.

[Easy E]

As the banker, your responsibility includes making up shortages. Nice players will help out if there's a big shortage such as yours. Greedy cheapskates like your higher stakes player, doesn't help.

I would count out stacks of chips beforehand ($50 blocks) and arrange them in your case so that you can easily pull a block out and add a few chips.

Unfortunately, but I'm sure you'll be extra careful from here on in...

[mosch]

This happened at my home game a few weeks back, where the bank was significantly short. Fortunately, in my situation, it was an argument over who would cover the loss, so the host actually wound up with extra money and a directive to buy better beer for the next week.

I know that financial situations vary, but while it's appropriate for the guests to offer to cover some or all of the loss, it's equally appropriate for you to be willing to eat the loss if they don't.

[baggins]

banker should assume all responsibility for cashing in chips and making up shortages. that's just how it works.

if i give a guy cash for chips for a poker game, i expect to be given the right amount of chips and to be able to trade them back in for cash at the end of the night.

the flip side of that is the banker has every right to count and recount and make sure nobody else counts out chips.

[Cyrus]

"Last night I hosted a five-handed home game with 1/2 limits, and I was the big winner with a net gain of $56 when we quit after four hours. So what's the problem? When I went to cash out everyone, the bank was short exactly fifteen dollars."

Make a habit of having a notebook handy to write down everybody's buy-ins. This slows the game a bit but make mistakes less probable. At the end of the game, it's also easier to reconcile stacks, winning and losses. Then there's also the thorny issue of buying in "on credit" which is taken care of that way.

When a mistake occurs, it's the banker's sole responsibility to make up for it! You are completely entitled ask for chip counts and re-counts (and annoy the hell out of everyone), as has been suggested -- until they remove the banker's "privileges" from your ass. But if you are also the guy in whose house the game is played, ie banker=house, then you don't have any way out of making it up, according to eternal "home-game rules".

All in all, being the banker carries only downsides.

[dallaspoker]

i emphazize with you ... i host games myself, a $1/2$ blind pot limit game a few nights a week, and a 6/12 limit games a couple of others ... and on many nights, especially with the pot limit games we will have 2 full tables going - with anywhere between $2000-$5000 in play. and i have only had 2 situations of shortages - 1) i gave out $200 in checks (player was already in the game), and forgot to get his money- phone rang, or something, i got side tracked. after all was said and done - i called him the next day and "asked" that he check his bankroll - and sure enough he was 200 heavy. he was kind enough to bring it to me the next game. the only other time i came up $35 short at the end of the night -- and have no idea where it went, could have been an overpay to someone else-who knows. what i'm trying to say is ... only 2 shortages over a period of over a year of having several games a week is very, very good. but .. i follow a very simple procedure ... i cash-in and out one (1) person at a time, i don't allow people to just "throw money at me" - and i double check, and ask each player to double check the counts -- EVERYTIME. this accomplshes 2 things - one it helps make sure the money is correct, and it always emphasizes the fact that we run an honest game, most everyone knows eachother, but we do get new players fairly often. the downside to being "the bank" is that i am responsible for the money, and personally -- think it is wrong to, and won't, ask anyone or everyone to help compensate for any shortages - i'm collecting the money for every chip in play - and responsible for paying out for every chip cashed in. it sucks when it does happen(shortages), because sooner or later it will and does happen -- but be very methodical and careful, even though it slows down the cash-in/out process - and your chances of shortages is reduced to next to zero.

[Blackjackgod]

If your game has no rake I suggest raking 50 cents in every 10 or 20 dollar pot. Explain to your friends that the rake is to cover expenses and things like a bank shortage. I run a home game with a larger rake for extra spending money once a week my self. I have only been off a couple times but I never know until after the players are gone and i compare the rake to the extra cash. That way anyone who gets shorted is me.

[Losing all]

I think you gotta eat the loss here as it was most likely your mistake. "high stakes player" sounds like a bit of a jackass though. Probably not the guy I want in my fun home game.

[happyjaypee]

I know how you feel. I'm always the bank in our home game and I had to cope for a couple uneven banks over the years. Got some help from the nicer guys.

My main problem is that we play in a bar and, on average, 10 or 12 plrs show up each night. Some of them are friends but many I don't know outside of the game.

I decided to rake 50cent per player whatever ther initial buy-in. I keep that money in my bag. (Nice PokerStars Bag I bought whit FPPs. /images/graemlins/cool.gif)

- If the bank come short, I use this side cash to cover what's missing
- When the bank reaches 30$ or more, I take 20$ out and pay two pitcher for the guys.

This help cover any lost at no cost and, from time to time, make the whole table happy. /images/graemlins/grin.gif



-Happy /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[slamdunkpro]

Bottom line - you're the bank - you're responsible.

I set up the table before hand with chips in fixed denomination groups( ie: $1 chips in groups of $20, $5's - $50. Then I count the total table bank. When players buy in - I count their cash, then I count their chips. When they cash out the process is reversed. I don't care how they've stacked, there is no pay out until I count their chips.

I use casino racks to speed the cash out process (100 chips in 20 chip stacks)

I also keep a change bank with a fixed amount for the clowns like your high roller who can't live without their $1.50 from their $36.50 cash out.

[CrackerZack]

banker is responsible for the money and chips. if he screws it up, he eats it. Every game I've ever played in has been that way.

[LetsRock]

Agree with all other posters. Banker covers the bank. If a mistake was made, the banker made it.

We don't play on credit from the bank - if somebody wants to loan someone some money that's fine, but no credit out of the bank.

For our game, I made some casino type racks and the chips always "stack" to the normal buy in which makes it a lot easier than the old days of seperating all the chips and counting every single stack. (This was especially painful with the plastic chips - we upgraded to clay chips a couple of years ago!)

[slamdunkpro]

Good point, (wish I'd made it)

We NEVER allow any type of credit (bank or table) and we play table stakes.

[DigitalNate]

This problem has pretty much disappeared from my home games since I bought a set of clay checks. I use casino style racks to hold the checks, so I always know that one stack of $1 checks is $20, one stack of $5 checks is $100, etc. This simplifies counting out stacks and helps to speed up the buy-in process.

Another thing I did to solve this problem is to make everyone buy in one at a time, if they get their money out they better hold onto it until it goes into the "bank" (a plastic cup with a lid that I keep in my sight at all times). I make sure noone but myself (or a trusted friend who acts as the banker for the night) touches the money cup or the unbought checks.

Since I bought the new checks and instituted the above mentioned rules, the bank has only been off once, and I took the hit on the $5, since it was likely my mistake. I do not miss that days of having to count obscene amounts of little plastic chips at the end of every night just to find out the bank was off by $30 because someone couldn't count to cash in or out right, or was simply cheating us.

[Gammonster]

Hey, charge the players a small fee, say $1 or so each session to cover [censored] like this. If you find yourself with, say $70, stop doing it and keep the 'insurance.'

[LetsRock]

Good luck with this.

When we decided to upgrade to clay chips, all the regulars agreed to chip in (no pun intended). I bought the chips and to make it fair to all (some are regulars, others are occasionals) I charged $2 a head (including myself) each game until the chips were paid for. After a couple of months this got to be like a wrestling match over something everyone previously agreed on.

If you can get your guys to give you money for "just in case you make a bank mistake" more power to you.

[James Boston]

It's an interesting dilemma, but it could be worse. My home game is at a fraternity house (i.e. neutral ground), so there really is no banker to take repsonsibilty. It's a game among friends, so mistakes are difficult to deal with without making accusations. When I guy buys in, he takes the box, counts his own chips, and puts his money in. I know this sounds idiotic, but usually it works. However, when there is a mistake we can't just say, "banker eats it." It takes forever to deal with.

[LetsRock]

This is a huge mistake and will eventually cause problems. Somebody needs to be the banker. It's not so much a trust issue as it is an honest (drunken?) mistake issue.

[stickman]

I have hosted a weekly 5-10 stud/8 home game for over 7 years now. Early on I had a similar problem with the bank being short. I could not figure out if I gave out too much change or if someone was bringing extra cheques. Most home game cheques are easy to obtain. As the house I was responsible for the short money. I would never dare to ask the other players to fix something that was my responsibilty.
Anyway, since then I bought custom chips from pokerchips.com . Sure they cost a lot, but are worth every penny, as I know no one else has the same set. I also know the exact amount of chips I have for sale in the game. Therefore, I know if any are missing or extras were snuck in. Secondly, I made a standard buy in (in my case $500)and have all my buy ins precounted in a chip case. This way I eliminate room for mistake in the flurry of all buy ins. Hope all of this was a help.

[Hedge Henderson]

[ QUOTE ]
I would count out stacks of chips beforehand ($50 blocks) and arrange them in your case so that you can easily pull a block out and add a few chips.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly. We played with change for over a year in our micro-limit home game. I was never short of course, but when we started trying to keep score, we saw plenty of inaccuracies. It was often difficult to get an honest total from eight or ten people.

We and bought a set of chips about eight months ago. Accuracy of scorekeeping improved dramatically but, since I host most of the games, I'm the banker, and it turned out to be a bit more work than I expected.

The first thing I did was, instead of sorting the chips in the case by color, I sorted them into stacks of $10.00. If someone bought in for $10, they got one row from the case.

When we did our first no-limit hold 'em tournament, I put the $10 worth of chips into ten Ziploc bags, each with a number on it so people could pull their chips and draw their seat at the same time. We ended up using the bags for several weeks afterward. It made things even easier. Someone handed me a ten, and I tossed them a bag of chips.

We've since spent a few bucks and graduated to the clear plastic chip boxes instead of Ziploc bags, but it still works the same. Ten bucks gets you one box. I stack the chips up and count them a day or so before the game so I know everything's all even. When a player cashes out, the chips go back into his/her original box. Since we're keeping score now, an added benefit is that, even if you can't depend on an accurate chip count from drunk players (or worse, a drunk banker) at the end of the night, all the chips are in boxes for you to review the next day.

Of course, the fact that we all trust each other helps.

[chesspain]

I hosted my first home game tonight since the night of the missing fifteen dollars. In preparation for tonight's game, I prepacked multiple bags with forty dollars worth of chips, which made it so much easier to just count out the extra $5 blue chips to balance out everyone's buy-in. And when it came time to cash out, the chips and cash balanced perfectly /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Even better still, I was up eighty-six dollars at the end of the night. Not bad for a five-handed 1/2 game!