interesting QQ hand 20-40 very big pot, howd i do?

[mike l.]

20-40 great game. i have QQ in the cutoff. tilting guy who plays pretty nitty usually but is loosening up considerably for the occasion limps utg, folded to me and i raise, button who is playing tons of hands for any amount of bets, cold calls, sb playing very loose calls, bb who is the biggest loose care free fish in this fishiest of line ups makes it 3 bets (he literally said earlier "i need to win a BIG pot soon!"), utg calls, i call (point of discussion number one), button calls, and now sb says cap it, and we all call. 20 small bets, 5 players.

the flop id 9s4d3d. sb bets, bb folds (!), utg calls, i call (point of discussion number 2), button calls. 24 small bets, 4 players.

the turn is Js. sb bets, utg raises, i 3 bet (point of discussion number 3), button calls 3 bets cold (!), sb calls, and utg calls. 24 big bets, 4 players.

the river is 6h. checked to me and i bet (point of discussion number four).

what do you think?

[Duke]

1. Not horrible. You can't fold, and he probably has AKs (because you can beat that - haha).
2. I don't know about this call. I'd raise here to get as much money into the pot when I think I'm ahead. Nobody is folding here... every draw is getting their odds and then some whether you raise or not.
3. I like this too. JX (X>J) just caught a piece, and is jacking it with their tp/tk and nut draw. Pound him, and maybe the others will go away.
4. AJ/KJ calls you here, and 56 might even make a crying call, or any flush draw that caught a pair for that matter. The pot is huge, so they'll be afraid to fold. I think there is value in this bet. If you get raised, well, I don't even know if you can fold. AJ might take a shot again. The pot is huge.

I don't know if you won this hand or not. The players seem insane. I'd only be a little surprised at 25o taking it down.

This sounds like the kind of pot that Motorcycle Bob would help build. You're playing at Oceans 11, right?

~D

[Bob S.]

I really can't give you an honest answer about the river bet (been hanging with the 3 wisemen tonight) but I would say smoothcalling the flop and waiting until the turn to raise gives you the best possible chance of winning this pot and had I been sober I would have done the same.

Bob S.

[mike l.]

i was called by the button (JTo) and utg (KJo). i raked in a $1080 pot w/ one pair.

i thought the decisions on all streets were very interesting and although the results were good i the choices i made are all highly debatable. anyone care to argue for or against?

[J_V]

I'm not gonna fault any of your decisions. Because I think you were put in a tough spot and pretty much nailed it. I would cap preflop in a heartbeat.

[Diplomat]

...What JV said. /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Cap pre-flop, the rest is textbook, especially waiting to the turn. Conventional knowledge might say raise the flop to push out lone aces and kings, but I doubt anyone that does not have their hand accidentally mucked by the dealer is folding on the flop here. The turn raise means business.

-Diplomat

[mike l.]

preflop i was already trying to figure out how i could avoid getting it just checked to me on the flop. in other words, i was already looking for a way for a player in front of me to take control of the hand so i could raise the turn if my hand still looked good then and try to drive some of these players out (note that my turn raise scared no ONE off as it was). i had no interest in jamming preflop and the flop as i figured against 5 players i would lose no one but jack the pot up beyond all reasonable size and make it so i could get no one out on the turn and possibly save myself from a deadly river card.

maybe i was taking this thinking of doing whatever i could to save the pot for myself too far and i should have just raised and reraised every street? im pretty certain that in this case the only way i was able to get bet and raised into on the turn was by playing completely dead after the initial preflop raise. if i had capped preflop it would have been checked to me on the flop, and likely on the turn.

so i played it in such a way as to drive players out but in fact only ended up making the pot about $300 larger than it wouldve been. very different result than what i was hoping for.

[andyfox]

I still think it's the correct approach. In a game like this, it seems the only chance of saving yourself from being draw out on is to get bet into on the turn so you can raise. When you have a big pocket pair, it certainly can't be wrong to plan for this beginning when you see that your second card matches your first.

I think this is one way I can improve my own performance in these types of games. Generally speaking I try to hit them over the head with a hammer as many times and as hard as possible. There is much to be said for holding back and making them think you don't have a hammer.

[ML4L]

Hey mike,

The first thing that came to mind when I read your post:

"A thing of beauty is a joy forever."

I feel like this is one of those hands that a good player and great player end up playing VERY differently. I know that, at the table in the heat of battle, I would not have played it as well as you, but fortunately, I'm still very young... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

ML4L

[nykenny]

my immediate thought after i read your post was, this hand was played very well! then i was trying to think what i would have done. but since i read the post already, i felt like i might have done the same.

i think you were probably close to "crystal clear" about all players probable hands. that was admirable.

good play