Nut flush cracked - Any advice?

[moondogg]

Howdy,
I'm pretty new; have read WLLH, HEP, HEPFAP, and S/S a few times each. Got about 2000 hands in poker tracker, breaking about even, but with some wild swings from the hard lesson that you can't bluff at 1/2.

If this is a typical "bad beat" that I shouldn't worry about, let me know. However, I suspect that I might have play this wrong (I wasn't going to win, but did I play it right?)

Here goes:
Pretty loose table, a few loose callers coming in will all kinds of junk, and a few rocks sitting there doing nothing.
BB is one of the loose ones.
EP1 just sat down.

Party Poker 1/2 (10 handed)
moondogg has J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif and is MP3

EP1 limps, moondogg raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls, EP1 calls

Flop(6 SB): 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB checks, EP1 checks, moondogg bets, BB calls, EP1 folds

Turn(4 BB): Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB checks, moondogg bets, BB raises, moondogg calls

River(8 BB): K/images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB bets, moondogg raises, BB 3-bets, moondogg caps, BB calls

Should I have raised the turn (I was trying to suck him in on the river)?
Should I have backed off the flop?

Any thoughts? Guesses at what he had?

Thanks

[Yeknom58]

Woa there big boy. You call the turn raise but when the board pairs you cap the river when the 4 flush hits and you hold the A and J of hearts. In a normal situation this guy has a FH. Unless he thinks his T of hearts is good and he is a nutcase.

The flop bet was pretty standard, you might have tried a CR to trap everyone for more bets. On the turn you should be ramming and jamming because a 4th heart can kill your action on the river. And on the river the raise is questionable but not terrible and the cap you made was pretty bad.

[ccwhoelse?]

[ QUOTE ]
If this is a typical "bad beat" that I shouldn't worry about, let me know

[/ QUOTE ]

no. i dunno, but there aren't that many hands that would turn this into a bad beat.

but besides your mistakes, you still shouldn't worry about loosing this pot.

after your play on the turn, just call the 3-bet on the river, don't cap.

had you 3-bet on the turn, which you should have, the BB can
cap on the turn or call on the turn.

if he were to cap on the turn and bet again on the river, i might raise and call a 3-bet

if he were to call on the turn and then bet into you on the river once the board paired, i am not sure what you should do but there are many people on this board who do. i would be less inclined to raise.

[Nottom]

Not 3-betting the turn here just makes no sense in this situation. I see players slowplay a hand on the turn all the time, when all it does is cost them bets.

What are you trying to accomplish by smooth calling the turn? Its heads up, so you can't collect bets from overcallers. If he has a set or two pair, you are giving him as cheap chance to improve. If another heart comes on the river, you are not going to get any action from a hand you can beat.

That being said when you get action on the river holding the top two flush cards, its time to slowdown.

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
Should I have raised the turn (I was trying to suck him in on the river)?


[/ QUOTE ]

You should have bet the turn. The problem with trying to suck him in on the river is that if the river card is a /images/graemlins/heart.gif your action dries up unless your opponent fills up.

Stu

[chesspain]

As others have suggested:

-You needed to cap the turn.
-Once the board pairs on the river, call the three-bet, but don't cap.

[moondogg]

Thanks all for your comments. I suspected that the turn and river plays were wrong (essentially, backwards).

To my suprise, he had pocket 99. I don't understand why he slowplayed the flop and then sped up when the flush card came, but oh well. If he was trying to throw off my read, he succeeded; I put him on a flush draw, which I had beat on the turn. Through the rest of the hand, I held to that read. If he had made the flush on the turn, I didn't want to scare him off (hence the call) and raise him when he bet into me on the river (getting 4 BB from him). I figured if I raised the turn, bet the river, and he check/called the river, I would get the same 4BB out of him, but he may check/fold the river, which would only get 3. Additionally, by my calling the turn, he may reraise the river, getting another 1 or 2 BB (assuming I had him beat with a better flush). I'm quickly learning that getting too deep into this thinking at the table when I don't have the time at the moment or the overall experience to make the best decision gets me into trouble.

General impatience on my part. I had convinced myself on the turn that I had the nuts (which I did at the time), and I couldn't let go of that. My biggest losses come from overplaying or getting tricky with pretty strong hands, no matter how scary the board looks.

Probably been reading too much HEPFAP, and not enough WLLH. I've found that trying to apply Sklansy, which assumes mid-limit semi-tough games, messes me up when I don't remember all the cases where he says "however, in loose games, it would be better to...". Also, his loose games section seems to be target more towards successful mid-limit players who want to improve their returns in a loose game, rather than beginning player who are starting out in loose games (again, too many tricks for a beginning player to leverage effectively). Have others found this too, or am I missing some major points?

Thanks again all.