Losing 16 BB in 13 hands, 22 minutes…

[ElSapo]

I don’t actually think there’s too much dramatically wrong with these hands. I think I got some decent cards and, well, stuff happens. But anyone who read my thread in the General forum about taking a break knows my confidence isn’t at full speed at the moment, so I figured I’d post just to make sure.

If these are just routine and blah, let the thread die. If I suck, let me have it.

I know of one outight mistake. Hand 6, I think raising the flop is essential, even though it wont change the outcome of the hand... Does anyone stick around in hand 8?

These are 12 hands I played at the beginning of a short session this morning…


Hand 1---

Party Poker 2/4 (8 handed)
Hero has Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif and is CO

Hero(poster) raises, Button calls

Flop(5.5 SB): K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif

Hero bets, Button calls

Turn(3.75 BB): 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Hero checks, Button checks

River(3.75 BB): A/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Hero checks, Button checks


Hand 2---

Party Poker 2/4 (9 handed)
Hero has J/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif and is MP3

MP2 limps, [I fold], Button limps, BB checks


Hand 3---

Party Poker 2/4 (8 handed)
Hero has K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and is MP1

UTG limps, [I fold], CO limps, BB checks


Hand 4---

I fold Jd 5d after 1 limper.



Hand 5---

I fold 35o because I’m not tilting yet.


Hand 6---

Party Poker 2/4 (7 handed)
Hero has 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif and is Button

UTG limps, MP1 limps, Hero limps, SB limps, BB checks

Flop(5 SB): 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif

SB checks, BB bets, UTG raises, MP1 folds, Hero calls, SB calls, BB calls

Turn(6.5 BB): Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, SB calls, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls, SB calls

River(15.5 BB): 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB checks, UTG bets, Hero folds, SB folds



Hand 7---

I fold 76o for no good reason whatsoever.



Hand 8---


Party Poker 2/4 (10 handed)
Hero has A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif and is MP2

UTG(poster) checks, EP1 limps, EP2 limps, MP1(poster) checks, Hero limps, MP3 limps, CO(poster) checks, BB checks

Flop(8.5 SB): Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB checks, UTG checks, EP1 checks, EP2 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO bets, BB calls, UTG folds, EP1 folds, EP2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero folds, MP3 calls

Turn(6.25 BB): J/images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, CO checks

River(6.25 BB): 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 bets, CO calls, BB folds, MP1 folds


Hand 9---

Party Poker 2/4 (9 handed)
Hero has 5/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif and is MP1

UTG limps, EP1 limps, Hero limps, MP3 limps, CO limps, SB limps, BB checks

Flop(7 SB): K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, EP1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, CO checks

Turn(3.5 BB): 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif

SB bets, BB folds, UTG calls, EP1 folds, Hero folds, MP3 folds, CO folds

River(5.5 BB): J/images/graemlins/club.gif

SB bets, UTG calls


Hand 10---
Party Poker 2/4 (9 handed)
Hero has K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif and is EP1

Hero limps, CO limps, Button limps, SB limps, BB checks

Flop(5 SB): 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, CO calls, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls

Turn(4 BB): Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets, BB folds, Hero calls

River(6 BB): 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Hero checks, CO bets, Hero raises, CO 3-bets, Hero calls


Hand 11---

Party Poker 2/4 (10 handed)
Hero has K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif and is UTG

Hero raises, EP2 3-bets, Hero caps, EP2 calls

Flop(10.5 SB): 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif

Hero bets, EP2 calls

Turn(6.25 BB): 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Hero bets, EP2 raises, Hero folds

[lil']

Hand 6 - You're right, you should have raised, but you probably would have still lost.

Hand 8 - Assuming your 5 outs are good, you should not fold. In fact, since it's right for you to call a bet, you could think about betting it yourself when it gets checked to you, since nobody seems interested.

Hand 11 - Good fold. Some would hang on.

Gee, the mistakes I saw actually saved you money!

[Bob T.]

I suspect that it wouldn't have made any difference in the outcome, but

Hand 8, checked to me, I have bottom pair, overcard, and backdoor flush draw, I think I would have bet the flop and saw what happened.

Hand 10, whenever you bet your draw, and are not raised, and the top card on the board pairs, bet the turn. You frequently win it then, and even if you don't, you still have outs. On this hand, apparently you wouldn't have won, because you lost when your draw came in, but it is a play that should be in your playbook.

[GuyOnTilt]

Hand 1: I might have bet the turn, depending on my opponent's tendencies, and what he views as my tendencies.

Hand 8: I might've bet the flop, but I definitely would've called with those odds when there's no fear of a raise behind me.

Hand 10: I would've bet the turn for sure.

[chesspain]

My take on your eleven hands:

1) I'ld either call or fold this PF...I'd want at least KJ when trying a steal from the CO

2-5) Fine

6) I'ld three-bet the flop, with the lowest possible set and the flush draw looming. Also, I might have made the crying call on the river.

7) Fine

8) I would have probably called for one SB on the flop, with bottom pair/TK and the backdoor flush

9&10) Fine

11) I would not have bet the river, although I might have checkcalled. No ace is going to fold, and the only worse hand that will call is QQ (and maybe JJ). Since your opponent knows you likely have a big pair, he could have put a bluff-raise on you.

[rharless]

I was going to respond exactly as BobT and GOT did for hands 8 and 10.

Just wanted to add, though, for Hand 7, you make a bit of an odd comment, "I fold 76o for no good reason whatsoever." For a hand like 76o, you need to look for a reason to play the hand. Good fold.

[GuyOnTilt]

1) I'ld either call or fold this PF...I'd want at least KJ when trying a steal from the CO

You're not open-raising nearly often enough if this is true. From the CO, I'd open-raise with hands like 66, KTo, A9o, Q9s, etc.

[Louie Landale]

[6] Yes, raise. Make a big pot, make them pay to draw, and you still get to disguise your hand, which could realistically be 88 or A7.

[8] Pretty easy call in big pot. You have a back-door draw; hitting your A or 8 is almost certainly the best hand (nobody makes a straight), it can easily get checked on the turn (giving you another card), and its even possible you have the only pair right now.

[10] Betting the flop and check-calling the turn announces flush draw. Check-raising the river isn't such a good idea. Anyway, I'd bet the turn since your intend to call one bet, can call a raise, and you can easily win this one right now.

[11] Hard to represent an Ace after 4-betting the flop. If he's got QQ you don't mind giving the free card, if he has AA or AQ you don't mind checking.

None of the above is that important.

Your thoughts about playing the trash hands is MUCH more important than how you played the good ones. Defeat those thoughts and your confidence will return.

- Louie

[ElSapo]

Comments and results...

My jokes about the trash hands were jokes. I don't tilt quite so badly as to play 35o, and 67o is an easy muck as well.

Hand 1- He had KQo and took it. Surprised he didn't bet the river, not that I'd have called. I had just posted though, and had no read on him, nor he on me I suspect.

Hand 6- Yeah, this was an easy raise with a very drawy board. Oftentimes I'll wait until the turn to pop it, but waiting here was a bad play. However, I suspect the outcome and number of bets remained the same.

Hand 8-- With bottom pair, top kicker and a backdoor flush draw, I should either have bet or called one on the flop. This is not the kind of call/bet I'm accustomed to making, especially with this many people in the field (though ironically this is probably why I should make the call). Understanding the odds of a 5-outer, and recognizing when it will be good, is something I need to work on. I just hate the idea of calling one and check-folding the turn (but that doesn't mean it isn't the right play). Q2 lost to KT who turned a straight.

Hand 10-- Quad Queens. That kind of morning.

[ElSapo]

Check-raising the river isn't such a good idea.

Because he wont bet, or because I may be beat? If my flop and turn action scream flush draw, you mean he wont bet unless I'm beat? Or do you think check-raising flushes on paired boards is a bad idea in general?

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
1) I'ld either call or fold this PF...I'd want at least KJ when trying a steal from the CO

You're not open-raising nearly often enough if this is true. From the CO, I'd open-raise with hands like 66, KTo, A9o, Q9s, etc.


[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I was just using KJ as a direct comparison to the QJ, with the better high card/same kicker. I usually would openraise with all of the above, with the possible exception of Q9s.

[ElSapo]

It was a steal attempt from a post in the CO. If it's folded to me in the CO and I've posted, I'm putting in one more SB with just about any two cards that look remotely playable.

[GuyOnTilt]

I'm confused on your position about his PF open-raise with QJo in hand 1. You said:

"I'd either call or fold this PF...I'd want at least KJ when trying a steal from the CO."

Folding isn't horrible. You're not giving up too much by sitting the hand out, but it's still a mistake, albeit a minor one. Limping, however, is a HUGE mistake. Our hero did exactly what he should've done in this position: he open-raised.

I guess I'm just confused. Your original reply and your more recently reply seem to contradict each other. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

[chesspain]

I guess I confused myself by stating call or fold. Since they're unsuited, I'm pretty sure I would fold QJ at least 90% of the time in this position. I'ld probably raise 5-10% of the time if the button and blinds were super-tighties.

And I'ld probably call 2-5% of the time, since I assume I play at least 5% of my hands badly /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[GuyOnTilt]

Fair enough. Folding isn't a horrible play here, but if the players on your left play poorly post-flop or are tight PF, I think it's a clear raise. Limping here is certainly wrong though. You should start experimenting with open-raising more hands from the CO and Button if the players on your left are weak.