Phycological problem in live games

[rtucker5]

For those of you that play live and online, do you ever have trouble with patience in live games? I have been struggling with this. I usually play 2 tables at a time online and have no problem folding KJ in early position or A 10 suited to a tight raiser. I can't seem to fold them in a live game because it feels like an eternity between hands and they start to look good. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to combat this?

[J.R.]

Get a seat with a good view of a TV and tell the brush to put on a sports game. It may not work for you, but I often order a beer or coktail, it helps me relax and persist with my patience.

[Tyler Durden]

Talk to the others at the table or read something.

[rtucker5]

[ QUOTE ]
It may not work for you, but I often order a beer or coktail, it helps me relax and persist with my patience.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the advice, I have actually tried this. The problem is that after 10 or 12 cocktails, A 10 suited becomes a 4 bet hand. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

The TV is a good idea.

[squiffy]

I think this is just a huge problem with LIVE games that a tight player will just continually have to struggle with. I have only two thoughts.

First, you can try focusing on figuring out the playing styles and betting, raising, and calling standards of your opponents. You could almost always learn a bit more in that regard.

Second, if you are a tight, disciplined player and are having trouble throwing away trash and marginal hands, imagine how much harder it is for your hopefully LOOSE, DRUNK, or IMPATIENT opponents.

But, honestly, I find that in my local LIVE game, there is a mix of patient tight players and LOOSIE GOOSIES, as online. And it's a bit more passive.

Somehow the anonymity and volume of players at Party online games seems to encourage what seems like slightly looser more aggressive play.

But I think this is just an insoluble problem of LIVE play that we will always have to deal with.

I simply prefer the internet and am much more profitable there at two .50-$1 tables than at one live $1-2 table.

[CrisBrown]

Hiya rtucker,

My advice, for what it's worth:

First, use the time between the hands you play to carefully study the other players. I usually pick one or two players at a time to study. I don't stare at them, of course. But I do keep a mental count of how many hands they play (loose vs. tight) and whether they usually check/call or bet/raise (passive vs. aggressive).

Okay, so that's the first hour or so ... what then? *laughs*

Well, you'll need to reassess your initial impressions as the game develops. You may realize that what you thought was a tight player was simply someone who was getting utter trash, or that someone you thought was loose was simply on a hot streak. A player may have changed styles, because the situation has changed (more or fewer players, higher blinds?), because he/she is tired or impatient or on tilt (like you've been doing), or simply because he/she has decided to shift gears.

Okay, that's about a tenth of your attention for the next two or three hours, so....

Read a book or magazine. Watch the game, or the soaps, or a movie, or whatever melts your butter. Chat courteously with the other players (I play better at a friendly table). Learn chip tricks. Count the number of times some player at another table rebuys, and make silent bets with yourself as to how long it'll be before the next one. Play "table talk bingo" -- where you make a five-by-five grid, put some poker-related phrase in each square, and check them off as you hear them, hoping to get five in a vertical, horizontal, or diagonal row.

In short, find ways to keep your mind active. *shrugs*

Cris

[Rocco17]

I just picked up the book 'Zen and The Art of Poker' by Larry W. Phillips. He covers this topic in detail and sort of beats the reader over the head regarding folding and patience. This book is certainly not comparable to the 2+2 books but it has some valuable advice if taken w/ a grain of salt. --Rocco17

[Cyndie]

[Stew]

One of the things I like to do in live play that can be more difficult online is working on my hand-reading skills and looking for other player's tells. I actually find this as fun as scooping a pot. For example, when I can Grandma Jones on 10/4 spades in EP, I get a rush that I could read a hand exactly. I'm pretty good at narrowing the field, but it's quite fun when you peg it.

[Cyndie]

I was sweating a buddy in the gaming club OIC, and was hitting every hand...well almost every hand with putting them on hands at least...still haven't figured out how to beat the hands...lol...but practice makes perfect?

But there are tells online...fast checks bets, etc.True Poker, of course has the best tell of all...picking up cards

[PlanoPoker]

If I'm going to play a live game, I play PL or NL. The hands are much more interesting to watch and there is more skill involved. It keeps me on my toes. Most importantly though, you can see more flops in PL/NL if the game is not aggressive pre-flop, but aggressive post-flop, as they tend to be.

Other than that, people may give you suggestions for how to better entertain yourself or keep yourself occupied, but it really comes down to self control. No matter how bored you get, you should be able to keep it straight in your head whether or not making an action is +EV for that exact moment or not.

[RydenStoompala]

It can be a boring game. Part of the psychological challenge of poker is getting into your zone where you really do not notice the time between hands. What I do is give myself a job, like trying to remember the exact chip count of the three or four best players at the table and run hourly rates on them. I found that the more I paid attention to other people's games, the larger my stack. For the record, I'd raise the A-10 suited against the tight raiser if the conditions were right because I would assume he's on a big pair. Too many outs not to take a run at a tight player. If another player re-raised the tigt guy in front of me, I might let them play...or not.

[RydenStoompala]

Careful with the picking up cards thing. I never have to look, but I do for other reasons. So do most of the players in the middle limits. It's a pace strategy more than a tell. I can remember my last 10+ hands at any time in the game, but I like to make the jumpy people with the big pairs sweat and fiddle. It's profitable.

[Lou Krieger]

[ QUOTE ]
For those of you that play live and online, do you ever have trouble with patience in live games? I have been struggling with this. I usually play 2 tables at a time online ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Your post made me wonder if there's a traditional casino out there that allows customers to play poker while using a laptop in a wireless mode to simultaneously play poker online. Somehow, I doubt it. /images/graemlins/frown.gif
_____
Lou Krieger
Raise your game with Lou Krieger, author of "Internet Poker: How To Play and Beat Online Poker Games," and five other poker books at Royal Vegas Poker.
http://www.royalvegaspoker.com/lou

[Lazymeatball]

[ QUOTE ]
Your post made me wonder if there's a traditional casino out there that allows customers to play poker while using a laptop in a wireless mode to simultaneously play poker online. Somehow, I doubt it.


[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously this violation would go well beyond the 'no cell phones' rule at most casinos. But I've played against my friend while he was playing online at a home game before.

What I want to know is how long will it take for a casino to replace it's dealer with 10 computers around a table, combining the speed of internet poker with the social aspect of live play. Heck, the casino could even program the computer to let you play blackjack or slots in between hands.

[Cyndie]

[jgraeffe]

In Poker Nation the main character fought bordem with drugs. Always a good solution. Another particularly colorful one he eployed was that he cut a hole in his pants pocket so he could masterbate at the table. I haven't tried this yet, but it reminds me of Internet poker.

[Vehn]

Uhm I would ignore the advice to watch TV or read a book or worse, drink. You're there to play cards and win money, you can do that stuff at home. The B&M players will tell you they just kinda fall into a zone, where for most of the hands you are a silent observer and are conserving your energy. Just watch the table, betting patterns, faces, eyes, everything. There's so much information of different sorts swirling around at a poker table I don't see how you can be bored. Play short sessions - mine are almost always 4-6 hours. Take a 1 orbit break every couple hours. If you're still unable to maintain your discipline maybe you need to play limits that are more meaningful to you.

[J.R.]

Just pointing out that I perceive the poster's dimena revolving around all the dead time that arises in casino poker, like when the fish next to you wants a scramble every other hand or a new setup, or when the dealer is telling some inane tale or waiting to be pushed. Of course he shouldn't be watching TV during a hand, but I find that often as a much as 10+ minutes an hour, depending on the players, the dealer and the cardroom policies, is spent waiting for the dead time to pass. I also like being able to bs with the people around me, and I find sports is a great conversation piece. This is fun to do and also profitable in certain games as it can help encourage a feindly, loose gambling atmosphere.

As to having a drink, well, that's a personal choice, and ignoring any debates about the merits/drawbacks of alcohol and speaking from personal preference/experience, I find a distinction between having a social beer to relax (I think it also helps defeat that nitty image my constant folding might convey) and working up strong buzz that would interfere with my ability to observe and process all the information around me.