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adios
11-06-2003, 12:25 PM
I found this article to be very interesting so I thought I'd share it with you all.

Europeans are worse than cockroaches (http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php3?table=old&section=current&issue=2003-11-08&id=3699)

FEATURES
Europeans are worse than cockroaches
There is a Cold War between the US and the EU, says Mark Steyn, and it will end with the collapse of Old Europe New Hampshire

Here’s a round-up of recent items from the world’s press you may have missed: Item 1: In the last two weeks, two Toronto-bound El Al flights had to be diverted to other airports after credible terrorist threats were made about using surface-to-air missiles against them. The Canadian transport minister, David Collenette, responded by suggesting that the Israeli airline’s service to Pearson International Airport might be ended.

Item 2: The Baghdad hotel in which Paul Wolfowitz was staying was blown up. Several people were killed, though the US deputy defence secretary emerged unscathed. Much of the death and destruction was caused by French 68mm missiles ‘in pristine condition’, according to one US officer who inspected the rocket tubes and assembly. In other words, they’re not rusty leftovers Saddam had lying around from the 1980s. The Baathist dictatorship had acquired these missiles from the French rather more recently.

Item 3: According to Le Nouvel Observateur, ‘D’après un questionnaire de la Commission Européenne, 59% des Européens pensent qu’Israël est le pays le plus menaçant pour la paix dans le monde.’

Item 4: In the Guardian, Tariq Ali ended this week’s column on the mounting American (and NGO) death toll in Iraq thus: ‘Iraqis have one thing of which they can be proud and of which British and US citizens should be envious: an opposition’.

On 11 September 2001, I wrote that one of the casualties of the day’s events would be the Western alliance: ‘The US taxpayer’s willingness to pay for the defence of Canada and Europe has contributed to the decay of America’s so-called “allies”, freeing them to disband their armed forces, flirt with dictators and gangster states, and essentially convert themselves to semi-non-aligned.’ ‘The West’ was an obsolete concept, because, as I put it later that month, for everyone but America ‘the free world is mostly a free ride’.

Two years on, most governments, at least officially, and most commentators, at least in the mainstream press, still don’t believe the relationship between America and its ‘allies’ is in a terminal state. But the above quartet of stories — and you can find equivalent items any week — illustrates why it can’t be put back together.

One: Mr Collenette’s response to terrorists is to take it out on their targets. Terrorists are threatening to use SAMs against El Al? No problem, we’ll get rid of El Al. That’s a great message to send. How soon before similar threats are phoned in to similarly jelly-spined jurisdictions in Europe? Pretty soon El Al won’t be flying anywhere. But no matter: Air Canada and Air France and Lufthansa will still be flying to Tel Aviv — at least until a couple of anonymous phone calls are made hinting at fresh targets.

The threats against El Al came via phone calls from the Toronto area from terrorists claiming to have heat-seeking missiles. Police subsequently found a cache of weapons including a German-made shoulder rocket launcher that was smuggled into Canada through the ingenious method of dropping it in the mail and letting the Post Office deliver it. So there are two approaches to this problem: you can crack down on Toronto-based terrorist cells and try to get government agencies not to deliver their rocket launchers; or you can ban El Al. Mr Collenette inclines to the latter. This is a man, by the way, who marked the first anniversary of 11 September by publicly regretting the fall of the Soviet Union because now there is nobody to check America’s ‘bullying’.

Lesson: In the war on terror, the United States believes in pre-emption; Canada, like many other ‘allies’, believes in pre-emptive surrender. These two strategies are incompatible.

Two: Just suppose that one of those French rockets had killed Paul Wolfowitz. One of the greatest fictions of the interminable debate on Euro-American differences over Iraq is that it’s an argument about the means, not the end. If only Bush had been a little less Texan, less arrogant, less bullying, if only he’d been less impatient and willing to put in the hours, he could have brought the French and Germans round. After all, everyone agrees Saddam Hussein is a very bad man.

Not the French and Germans. There’s too much evidence suggesting the main reason they were unable to join the Bush side in this war is that they’d already signed on to the other team and they’d decided, in the sort of ghastly vernacular the cretinous Yanks would use, to dance with them what brung you. They’re being admirably consistent about this: at the recent Madrid conference France and Germany both refused to pony up one single euro to Iraqi reconstruction. It was never about the means, only the end.

Lesson: America and ‘Old Europe’ have different objectives in Iraq, and those objectives are incompatible.

Three: 59 per cent of Europeans think Israel is the biggest threat to world peace. Only 59 per cent? What’s wrong with the rest of you? But, hey, don’t worry. In Britain, it’s 60 per cent; Germany, 65 per cent; Austria, 69 per cent; the Netherlands, 74 per cent. The good news is that Israel won’t be a threat to world peace much longer, at least not if Iran’s nuclear programme carries on running rings around the International Atomic Energy Agency and the ayatollahs fulfil their pledge to solve the problem of the Zionist Entity once and for all.

Let us leave for another day the question of whether Israel is actually a bigger global menace than North Korea, which has hung a big shingle on the street saying ‘Nukes? We Got ’Em! And You Won’t Believe Our Prices!’ The fact is that 11 September bound America to Israel in ways that oblige Washington to regard European distaste for Jews as more than a mere social faux pas. Given the rate of Islamic immigration to Europe, those anti-Israeli numbers are heading in only one direction. At present demographic rates, by 2020 the majority of children in Holland — i.e., the population under 18 — will be Muslim. What do you figure that 74 per cent will be up to by then? Eighty-five per cent? Ninety-six per cent? If Americans think it’s difficult getting the Continentals on side now, wait another decade. In that sense, the Israelis are the canaries in the coalmine.

Lesson: America’s and Europe’s world views have diverged significantly, and those world views are now incompatible.

Four: Tariq Ali may not be the most representative political commentator, but it’s still quite something to find the house journal of the United Kingdom’s leftie establishment printing the assertion that Americans and Britons can only envy the vigour of the Iraqi ‘opposition’. So that’s what Iain Duncan Smith was doing wrong! He should have been loading up ambulances with rockets and firing them into hospitals. That’s the way to draw attention to the problems of the NHS.

The other day I accidentally referred to Tariq Ali as Tariq Aziz and within minutes had a little flurry of emails from correspondents sneering that evidently all these guys sound alike to me. Well, I wouldn’t say that. But Tariq Ali and Tariq Aziz are sounding very much alike. In fact, T. Ali sounds more Baathist than T. Aziz these days. When I was in the Sunni Triangle, I met many Iraqis who were grateful to the Americans; some who wanted a more visible US presence on the ground, a few who resented the infidel occupier — but not one who was as gung-ho for the Saddamite holdouts and Syrian and Iranian opportunists as Tariq Ali. For him, and for Mr Collenette, and for Goran Persson and Nelson Mandela and many many others, even on 11 September, the issue was never terrorism; the issue was always America.

Lesson: Washington and Europe do not agree on the problem, so they’re hardly likely to agree on the solution.

Tariq and co. are right to this extent: in the scheme of things, it’s not about Islamic terrorism. The Islamist goal is a planet on which their enemies are either dead or Muslim converts. That’s not going to happen. But Islamism is sufficiently disruptive to rupture permanently the old ‘Western alliance’. A lot of things have been said on both sides, but what’s impressive about the Europeans is the palpable desire for America to fail, and Bush to fall.

I can’t see that happening. On election day next November, the Democrats have no chance of taking back the House of Representatives and they’re all but certain to lose seats in the Senate. Bush is likely to be re-elected: with that 7.2 per cent growth in GDP, it’s hard even for the BBC to keep pretending America’s in the middle of some sort of recession; and whatever happens in Iraq it’s difficult to see the Democrats, running on a foreign policy of Cut & Run, being the beneficiaries. But the trouble with a war on terror is that the victories go unreported — the plotters who get foiled, the bombers who don’t make it through. All you hear about are the defeats. Let’s say there’s a terrorist attack in the US in the next 12 months and it kills several hundred people. On the one hand, you could argue that this shows the soundness of Bush’s judgment in making terrorism the priority of his administration. On the other, you could argue that this proves he never learnt the lessons of the failures of 11 September. Knowing the American media, I’d bet on the latter line being the one they settle on.

But other than that, the arguments over the next few years are going to be between conservatives — between those who think it is worth pushing on with an ambitious programme to bring the Middle East within the non-deranged world, and those who figure that’s doomed to fail and we should settle for something less. This project is in the national interest of the United States but, in the end, the fate of the world’s hyperpower does not hinge on it.

Now let’s turn back to Europe. The Telegraph’s Adam Nicolson got irritated the other day because Denis Boyles of America’s National Review had dismissed the Europeans as ‘cockroaches’. Boyles is wrong. The Europeans are not cockroaches. The cockroach is the one creature you can rely on to come crawling out of the rubble of the nuclear holocaust. Whereas the one thing that can be said with absolute confidence is that the Europeans will not emerge from under their own rubble.

Europe is dying. As I’ve pointed out here before, it can’t square rising welfare costs, a collapsed birthrate and a manpower dependent on the world’s least skilled, least assimilable immigrants. In 20 years’ time, as those Dutch Muslim teenagers are entering the voting booths, European countries, unlike parts of Nigeria, will not be living under Sharia, but they will be reaching their accommodations with their radicalised Islamic compatriots, who like many intolerant types are expert at exploiting the ‘tolerance’ of pluralist societies.

How happy what’s left of the ethnic Dutch or French or Danes will be about this remains to be seen. But the idea of a childless Europe rivalling America militarily or economically is laughable. Sometime this century there will be 500 million Americans, and what’s left in Europe will either be very old or very Muslim. That’s the Europe that Britain will be binding its fate to. Japan faces the same problem: in 2006, its population will begin an absolute decline, a death spiral it will be unlikely ever to climb out of. Will Japan be an economic powerhouse if it’s populated by Koreans and Filipinos? Possibly. Will Germany if it’s populated by Algerians? That’s a trickier proposition.

Last Sunday, recalling the US–Soviet summits that helped ‘ease the tensions of the Cold War’, the New York Times’s Thomas Friedman proposed we hold regular US-Franco-German summits. Implicit in that analysis is the assumption that France and perhaps other Continental countries now exist in a quasi-Cold War with America. If that’s so, the trick is to manage the relationship until the Europeans, like the Soviets, collapse. Europe is dying, and it’s only a question of whether it goes peacefully or through convulsions of violence. On that point, I bet on form.

nicky g
11-06-2003, 01:10 PM
"Europeans are worse than cockroaches "

That's nice. It must be hard to put up with all this anti-American racismwe hear so much of. How fortunate that the American right would never indulge in anything along those lines.

nicky g
11-06-2003, 01:27 PM
"Will Japan be an economic powerhouse if it's populated by Koreans and Filipinos? Possibly. Will Germany if it's populated by Algerians? That's a trickier proposition. "

Unbelievable. Ignoring the fact that the main ethnic minority in Germnay is Turkish, not Algerians (who tend to emigrate to France), which shows just how well this charming man is informed:

People who criticise the American state are anti-American racists. People who criticise the actions of the state of Israel, condemned by every respectable human rights group in the world, are antisemites. But it's ok to call Europeans cockroaches. It's ok to say whatever you want against Muslims or Arabs. What would you think if I linked to an article which called Americans cockroaches, or that Jewish emigration would destroy the American economy, and said it was interesting and I'd like you all to read it?

Stellar.

adios
11-06-2003, 01:30 PM
Ah Nicky that's the title of the article that appeared in a British publication written by a Canadian.

nicky g
11-06-2003, 01:46 PM
Oh great! That's ok then. As long as an American didn't write it, it's fine for someone to call Europeans cockroaches and make racist remarks about Arabs while hyping the US. I'll be sure to remeber that next time I post anti-American and anti-semitic racism written by a non-European.

adios
11-06-2003, 01:52 PM
"Oh great! That's ok then. As long as an American didn't write it,"

No but your reaction was to trash the USA. I didn't say it was ok. I'm certainly not going to change the name of the title. Is the Spectator some kind of racist publication in England? I thought it was more or less legit.

" it's fine for someone to call Europeans cockroaches and make racist remarks about Arabs while hyping the US."

Did I say that? Would you like me to censor what's written about Europe, in European publications, by non Americans in the future?

It seems to me that you're shooting the messenger.

"I'll be sure to remeber that next time I post anti-American and anti-semitic racism written by a non-European. "

Written in mainstream US publications analagous to the Spectator in England?

In fact here's a link to Steyn's web site:

Steyn Website (http://www.steynonline.com/)

Are all those publications that Steyn has contributed to racist publications?

One more thing. If I find some article to be what I consider interesting to I have to explain that I don't necessarily agree with the choice of words and/or all of the conclusions that are made by an author? Do you need an explanation of why I'd find it interesting?

Gamblor
11-06-2003, 03:29 PM
Everyone's a racist except Nicky.

Oh heavens! Let's all try to be a little more cockroachy, in deference to Nicky.

Just cause I don't like the towel-heads that kill my friends, doesn't mean I'm a racist /images/graemlins/grin.gif

After that whole article, explaining the great big armageddon that's coming, that instead of going after the terrorists, because it's Israel, everyone goes after the victims, all you can do is find one benignly racist comment?

Why don't you ever address the issue at hand?

adios
11-06-2003, 04:28 PM
I didn't realize that you were so closed minded about reading points of view that differ from your own. In context here's what the piece stated referring to what you cited:

Europe is dying. As I’ve pointed out here before, it can’t square rising welfare costs, a collapsed birthrate and a manpower dependent on the world’s least skilled, least assimilable immigrants. In 20 years’ time, as those Dutch Muslim teenagers are entering the voting booths, European countries, unlike parts of Nigeria, will not be living under Sharia, but they will be reaching their accommodations with their radicalised Islamic compatriots, who like many intolerant types are expert at exploiting the ‘tolerance’ of pluralist societies.

How happy what’s left of the ethnic Dutch or French or Danes will be about this remains to be seen. But the idea of a childless Europe rivalling America militarily or economically is laughable. Sometime this century there will be 500 million Americans, and what’s left in Europe will either be very old or very Muslim. That’s the Europe that Britain will be binding its fate to. Japan faces the same problem: in 2006, its population will begin an absolute decline, a death spiral it will be unlikely ever to climb out of. Will Japan be an economic powerhouse if it’s populated by Koreans and Filipinos? Possibly. Will Germany if it’s populated by Algerians? That’s a trickier proposition.

The point the author's making is that the demographics of at least a few European countries are changing and the author is in reality questioning the tolerance of caucasions who live in these countries to people of color who also live in these countries when they have a stronger political presence. Not necessarily a racist comment in and of itself. If I questiond whether or not people who flew the confederate flag would accept people of color given those people's political power, that doesn't make it a racist comment.

"People who criticise the American state are anti-American racists."

Who said that?

"People who criticise the actions of the state of Israel, condemned by every respectable human rights group in the world, are antisemites."

Who said that?

"But it's ok to call Europeans cockroaches."

Who said that? Apparently the editorial powers that be at the Spectator thought it was o.k. Obviously the author was trying to be provacitive.

"It's ok to say whatever you want against Muslims or Arabs."

Who said that? You seem to be attributing a lot of beliefs to me without any kind of substantiation.

"What would you think if I linked to an article which called Americans cockroaches,"

I would say it's preferable to being a maggot. I mean that stuff just rolls off my back because it isn't the first time someone has made those claims and it won't be the last time. I'm not calling you a maggot, it's a comeback that's all.

"that Jewish emigration would destroy the American economy,"

I would call that ridiculous.

"and said it was interesting and I'd like you all to read it?"

I would say par for the course. What I find interesting about this piece done by Steyn first of all it's apparently written by someone who spends a fair amount of time in Europe, may even live there and is discussing the political, economic and social climate in Europe and painting a far different picture of Europe than is often portrayed. I don't really know how accurate his portrayal is. Is it interesting? Well let's look at the main points:

Point 1.
Lesson: In the war on terror, the United States believes in pre-emption; Canada, like many other ‘allies’, believes in pre-emptive surrender. These two strategies are incompatible.

Sounds like an exaggeration but how true is it? What should be done about terrorism according to non US leaders?

Point 2

Lesson: America and ‘Old Europe’ have different objectives in Iraq, and those objectives are incompatible

I'm curious as to what the 'Old Europe' objectives are in more detail.

Point 3.

Lesson: America’s and Europe’s world views have diverged significantly, and those world views are now incompatible.

I'm surprised if that's really true and actually quite sad about that and quite disturbed by it.


Point 4.

Lesson: Washington and Europe do not agree on the problem, so they’re hardly likely to agree on the solution.

The problem of course is about the current of affairs in Iraq. What are some of the viewpoints of Europeans on this?

Point 5

Europe is dying. As I’ve pointed out here before, it can’t square rising welfare costs, a collapsed birthrate and a manpower dependent on the world’s least skilled, least assimilable immigrants. ...

You've extoled the virtues of socialism before is this just a bs statement about it's future or is it really in jeopardy?

adios
11-06-2003, 04:33 PM
Nicky decries the author for implying that at least some Europeans (Germans no less) may be intolerant of some ethnic and religous groups. Ah ... I'll just let it go for now but I think you probably get my point.

Cyrus
11-06-2003, 08:00 PM
Well, I knew The Spectator was short of jokers after Taki had left the building (to head for prison) but I couldn't imagine it would get to this.

Random sampling :

-- Denouncing the French for being nasty little imperialists (and selling weapons to Iraq), and ignoring the US for being nasty grand imperialists (and selling weapons to Iraq).

-- Getting ahold of a poll that brings home bad news, such as the public opinion of some hundreds of millions of Europeans about Israel, and then attacking the messenger instead of seriously analysing the message and its implications.

-- Denouncing the Europeans for sins such as having a low birthrate (!) and welcoming to their countries dirty and uncouth immigrants such as Moslems or Easterners who are so very "hard to assimilate". (Himmler's biologists couldn't have put it better.)

All in all, another achievement in the annals of humor. Thanks for the link, Tom.

adios
11-07-2003, 02:04 AM
Cyrus writes:

"-- Denouncing the French for being nasty little imperialists (and selling weapons to Iraq), and ignoring the US for being nasty grand imperialists (and selling weapons to Iraq)."

No his point is that the French chose sides in the conflict and they sided with Saddam against the USA. It goes along with his assertation that the Europe and the USA are pitted against each other in a cold war conflict. Here's a quote from the article:

Just suppose that one of those French rockets had killed Paul Wolfowitz. One of the greatest fictions of the interminable debate on Euro-American differences over Iraq is that it’s an argument about the means, not the end. If only Bush had been a little less Texan, less arrogant, less bullying, if only he’d been less impatient and willing to put in the hours, he could have brought the French and Germans round. After all, everyone agrees Saddam Hussein is a very bad man.

Not the French and Germans. There’s too much evidence suggesting the main reason they were unable to join the Bush side in this war is that they’d already signed on to the other team and they’d decided, in the sort of ghastly vernacular the cretinous Yanks would use, to dance with them what brung you. They’re being admirably consistent about this: at the recent Madrid conference France and Germany both refused to pony up one single euro to Iraqi reconstruction. It was never about the means, only the end.

Cyrus wrote:

"-- Getting ahold of a poll that brings home bad news, such as the public opinion of some hundreds of millions of Europeans about Israel, and then attacking the messenger instead of seriously analysing the message and its implications."

No again you haven't addressed his assertation in the article. You couldn't be more wrong. He has addressed the message that the poll sends. Again from the article:

Let us leave for another day the question of whether Israel is actually a bigger global menace than North Korea, which has hung a big shingle on the street saying ‘Nukes? We Got ’Em! And You Won’t Believe Our Prices!’ The fact is that 11 September bound America to Israel in ways that oblige Washington to regard European distaste for Jews as more than a mere social faux pas. Given the rate of Islamic immigration to Europe, those anti-Israeli numbers are heading in only one direction. At present demographic rates, by 2020 the majority of children in Holland — i.e., the population under 18 — will be Muslim. What do you figure that 74 per cent will be up to by then? Eighty-five per cent? Ninety-six per cent? If Americans think it’s difficult getting the Continentals on side now, wait another decade. In that sense, the Israelis are the canaries in the coalmine.

His claim is that the message sent is that many Europeans have a distaste for Jews and that the results of the poll are only a manifistation of that distaste. Furthermore the changing demographics of Europe are shaping up in such a way that the distaste for Jews will become even more widespread.

Cyrus writes:

"-- Denouncing the Europeans for sins such as having a low birthrate (!) and welcoming to their countries dirty and uncouth immigrants such as Moslems or Easterners who are so very "hard to assimilate". (Himmler's biologists couldn't have put it better.) "

Again you couldn't be more wrong about what he wrote. Here it is in context:

Europe is dying. As I’ve pointed out here before, it can’t square rising welfare costs, a collapsed birthrate and a manpower dependent on the world’s least skilled, least assimilable immigrants. In 20 years’ time, as those Dutch Muslim teenagers are entering the voting booths, European countries, unlike parts of Nigeria, will not be living under Sharia, but they will be reaching their accommodations with their radicalised Islamic compatriots, who like many intolerant types are expert at exploiting the ‘tolerance’ of pluralist societies.

How happy what’s left of the ethnic Dutch or French or Danes will be about this remains to be seen. But the idea of a childless Europe rivalling America militarily or economically is laughable. Sometime this century there will be 500 million Americans, and what’s left in Europe will either be very old or very Muslim. That’s the Europe that Britain will be binding its fate to. Japan faces the same problem: in 2006, its population will begin an absolute decline, a death spiral it will be unlikely ever to climb out of. Will Japan be an economic powerhouse if it’s populated by Koreans and Filipinos? Possibly. Will Germany if it’s populated by Algerians? That’s a trickier proposition.

He claims that Europe is dying i.e. the economic and social fabric are changing radically. Furhermore the 'Old Europe' if you will is being replaced by a far different culture. He doesn't denounce the low birthrate per se he's offering it as proof of his allegation. He's not claiming that European citizens are welcoming immagrents with open arms as you state he's claiming exactly the opposite that he believes that ethnic Dutch, French, Danes etc. will resent these immagrants not welcome them with open arms. As far as the use of the word assimilate. Perhaps you and Nicky look up the definition. What he's claim is that the immagrants will be hard to assimilate due to the economic and social mores of the countries they're immigrating too in that the immigrants come from a far different culture and have far different values. He's claiming that many of the ethnic citizens of the various European countries mentioned are bigoted. Talk about shooting the messenger, both you and Nicky have totally distored his points. Steyn makes claims that many European citizens are intolerant bigots and makes a case why this is so. Obviously Steyn is condemning these folks for what he feels is their hypocrisy and hatred. Nice try calling him the bigot when in reality he's pointing out who the bigots are in his opinion.

nicky g
11-07-2003, 07:34 AM
"Nicky decries the author for implying that at least some Europeans (Germans no less) may be intolerant of some ethnic and religous groups."

This is completely disingenuous and not remotely what the author is saying. He's saying that Arab immigrants are damaging to the economy and society and likely to turn those countries into fundamentalist Islamic states. He makes one brief comment about how "happy" the "European" residents will be about this; the rest is predicated on the idea that immigration from Arab countries is a bad thing.

You can post what you like but I reserve the right to tell you that if anyone posted anything similar but targeting other groups, and without dissasociating themselves with it, they would be rightly denounced by everyone on this forum as a Nazi.

I didn't address the issues because the article is garbage. It repeats the lie that Europeans rated Israel as the most dangerous threat to peace, when even a cursory look at the poll reveals that wasn't what was asked. It takes 4 completely unconnected news articles, one it admits is unprepresentative, one that's not even anything to do with Europe, and uses them as a prelude for the premise that Europe is dying, partly based on racist assumptions about Muslim immigrants. That the European population is aging is for certain. That this will cause economic problems, sure. Thats been said a thousand times before, and is just as true of many other countries, but if that's what you wanted to point out fine. You could have found a dozen other articles that didn't bury this information in a bunch of hysterical ranting with an opnely racist headline. The rest is ill-informed racist garbage.

The United States is great because of emigration. When people start emigrating to Europe though, it's the end of the world. This kind of crap has been written about virtually every emigration wave at one point or other, including most of the emigration waves to the US, and I can't believe you can't see it for the garbage that it is just because it's Arabs and Muslims this time.

nicky g
11-07-2003, 10:25 AM
"not claiming that European citizens are welcoming immagrents with open arms as you state he's claiming exactly the opposite that he believes that ethnic Dutch, French, Danes etc. will resent these immagrants not welcome them with open arms. As far as the use of the word assimilate. Perhaps you and Nicky look up the definition. What he's claim is that the immagrants will be hard to assimilate due to the economic and social mores of the countries they're immigrating too in that the immigrants come from a far different culture and have far different values. He's claiming that many of the ethnic citizens of the various European countries mentioned are bigoted. Talk about shooting the messenger, both you and Nicky have totally distored his points. Steyn makes claims that many European citizens are intolerant bigots and makes a case why this is so. Obviously Steyn is condemning these folks for what he feels is their hypocrisy and hatred. Nice try calling him the bigot when in reality he's pointing out who the bigots are in his opinion. "

You're just making this up. The only thing he says about how Europeans feel about this immigration is:

"How happy what's left of the ethnic Dutch or French or Danes will be about this remains to be seen. "

That's it; he doesn't know. The rest of his article makes it clear he thinks Arab immigrants are unskilled, hard to assimilate, dangerous and useless compared to Asian immigrants - Japan might do OK with Filipinos, but Europe is ruined by the Arabs. His point is absolutely not to denounce Europeans as bigoted towards Arab immigrants, but to laugh at Europe for what he thinks is the disaster of large-scale Arab and Muslim immigration.

Cyrus
11-07-2003, 07:24 PM
I see I have to dust that sorry piece of article a bit more lest it affects the lungs of impressionable young things.

"His point is that the French chose sides in the conflict and they sided with Saddam against the USA."

Then his point is a complete lie. The French did not side with Saddam. George Bush may in fact think so ("Those not with us are against us") but what George Bush thinks is not always true, to put it politely.

"His claim is many Europeans have a distaste for Jews."

Bigots and anti-semites exist everywhere. The question is always one of proportion. Do we really have 150 million (half the population) antisemites in Europe?? This is a totally absurd claim. European people simply recognize that Israel is a bigger threat to peace than most other countries around. That's all there is to it and some people don't like it.

"Furthermore the changing demographics of Europe are shaping up in such a way that the distaste for Jews will become even more widespread."

...Meaning that Arabs will keep coming to Europe (and breeding profusely) so that we will end up with even more than 150 million anti-semites! I tell you, such arguments are so facile, so preposterous that I simply cannot comment on them without Matt Sklansky censoring my ass.

"He claims that Europe is dying i.e. the economic and social fabric are changing radically."

Since when a "change" is necessarily a sign of "dying"? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

"He doesn't denounce the low birthrate per se he's offering it as proof of his allegation [that Europe is dying]."

Claims that a high birthrate is a sign of national vitility while a low birthrate is a sign of degeneracy and cultural decay are nothing new. They have been the standard arguments of many fascist-minded demagogues in the past. Your writer is in deep trouble there.

"The immigrants will be hard to assimilate [in Europe] due to the economic and social mores of the countries they're immigrating too ; the immigrants come from a far different culture and have far different values."

Yes, that is a possibility. So what is the point in all this? European governing institutions are way ahead in this game. We can speculate as to the outcome but the groundwork is being laid for a melting pot rather than ethnic wars. And the vast majority of people in Europe are not bigots, sorry about that.

"Steyn makes claims that many European citizens are intolerant bigots and makes a case why this is so."

No, Steyn is merely upset that the European citizens cannot all be fooled all the time, unfortunately for his Israel. So he calls Europeans names, such as "anti-semites", "cockroaches", etc. Pathetic.