QQ hand for review

[Saborion]

I`m pretty sure I know one of my mistakes in this hand, but here we go. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Party 2/4 (not sure what I`m doing at that lvl when looking at this hand).
I`m dealt Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif in EP3.
UTG raise, I re-raises, folded to CO that limps, UTG calls.
3 to see the flop, pot contains 5.25 BBs.

Flop comes A /images/graemlins/spade.gif T /images/graemlins/spade.gif A /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG checks, I bet, CO raise, UTG calls, I re-raise (I consider this a mistake now, and did as soon as I had raises too for that matter), both calls.
3 to the turn, pot is 9.75 BBs.

Turn comes 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG checks, I check, CO bets, UTG raises, I fold and CO calls.
2 to the river, pot is 13.75 BBs.

River is 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG bets, CO calls.

CO had J /images/graemlins/heart.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif (not something you cold call a 3-bet with, even at this position, or?).
UTG had Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif K /images/graemlins/spade.gif (do you really raise with this hand UTG?) and takes it down.

[crockpot]

your flop re-raise is a crazy play on this board. when someone raises you after two aces have flopped, he has at least three aces, and he will not lay them down unless you know how to send him a computer virus before the end of the hand. i would usually fold but might call here, but it would be with the intent of folding if the turn is not a queen.

good to see you found the sense to fold on the turn. don't marry your big starting hands or you will get killed in this game.

[Saborion]

Yes, as I said, as soon as I had pressed the raise button I thought "Hmm... that was most likely not the best thing I could do..." /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Mike Gallo]

Saborian,

Welcome to the forum. From the sound of this hand, your game needs some work. This question sums up the entire hand.

UTG had Q K (do you really raise with this hand UTG?)

Keep posting hands.

[Saborion]

If you ask me, KQ is NOT a hand that you raise with pre-flop from UTG, even if it`s suited.

Just wanted to make sure that the play made by that player was a "bad" play. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Just to make sure I`m not completely lost here. High suited connectors such as AKs, KQs (and possibly even QJs) and AQs works well in both multiway pots and shorthanded pots right? While hands such as AQ, AJ and KQ most of the time want as few players in the pot as possible. Or? AJ should be raised on a typical table from LMP with one limper before you? 4 players in the pot with you must be less good with a hand like this right?

Oh, btw. I`ve been around since June, but been mostly reading. Time to "move up" and start working on my game properly now. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Mike Gallo]

Just wanted to make sure that the play made by that player was a "bad" play.

I think he made a normal play here. You will find many players, myself included raising with KQ suited utg.

No question the AJ player should have folded, however I cannot critique the play of UTG.

[johnb]

A learned skill in holdem, and it is a skill that takes some practice, is to be able to think ahead. When you raised on the flop, you had to ask yourself what would you do if it was raised back to you. It sounds like you made a traditional new holdem player mistake of playing your hand only without sufficent thought to the actions of the other players. Another way to think of it is that you reacted rather than thinking out your play.

A note about raising K-Q before the flop. I do it much more than I used to. However, the more I play the more I realize that it is a very game specific decision. In loose passive games with it likely that a lot of players call such raises, I tend not to raise. When I notice early position raises limiting the field to one or two players, I tend to raise more....
J B

[jasonHoldEm]

Hi Saborion,

This is hilarious, check out my post HERE (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=397023&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1).

Welcome to the forum, great minds think alike I guess. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

peace,
Jason

[Saborion]

Unless I`m mistaken many authors say that you should call with KQs from UTG? Unless, as someone said, you know you`ll limit the field?

[Saborion]

Oh. I suppose I should start giving some consideration to whether or not to raise with KQs UTG then. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

But would you do the same play with KQo?

[kiddo]

[ QUOTE ]
Unless I`m mistaken many authors say that you should call with KQs from UTG? Unless, as someone said, you know you`ll limit the field?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this "if you are not limiting the field" is used way to often. Often its just an excuse for a weak/passive player not to have to put in 1 more bet.

(There is a lot of good reasons not to raise in HEFAP loose-section, I think that is bad for beginners, they need to learn to fold/raise and get away from call call call... For a long time I used the loose-secion HEFAP advice as an excuse not to be aggressive.)

The good players fold when you raise preflop, and the bad call you with all sorts of crap. That is good. On flop you are with the bad players, they will loose a lot if you hit.

I dont say this because I think that raising KQs UTG at 2/4 is automatic. But "not limiting the field" and "giving up preflop to gain postflop" is used a little to much for the wrong reasons.

[Mike Gallo]

But would you do the same play with KQo?

Limp.