Maniac at the Final Table

[MuckMuck]

Details: $30PL at Pokerstars last night. Final table I'm in 2nd chip position with 92k chip leader has 160K and 2 short stacks under 15k and the rest between 27k-68k. Chip leader is aggressive but a pretty solid player. The guy in 3rd with 68k is a absolute maniac. As we were playing with 10 to get to the final table the maniac had 217k in chips and was involved in every hand till someone got knocked out and thus made it to the final table with only 68K.
Question: How do you deal with this guy at the final table. He has more then enough chips to hurt you and if he's in a blind, or limps, or raises in he's calling or reraising your raise with any 2. I decided that I would not get involved with him unless his hand was folded or I was extremely strong AA, KK, QQ, AKs, AKo maybe. My strategy worked for the most part but he hung around till 4th place catching every card in the world killing my chances to pick up blinds etc. Turns out I finnished in 2nd but I wanted to know how you guys would deal with someone like this. I mean how do you take someone seriously who reraises a pot with 24 off all in for 80k and takes down AA? Seriously I've never seen anything like this guy. Any comments or opinions on how to handle him?

Thanks,
Mike A.

[Greg (FossilMan)]

It's purely a math question, except for factoring in how others are responding.

If the guy is simply raising all-in every hand, then the question is how big is your edge over a random hand, and is it enough to risk going broke now rather than crawling up the payscale as others bust out.

If other people are so tilted by the guy that they're going to overcall you with less than premium hands, you need to estimate what range of hands they will play, and adjust accordingly.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[MuckMuck]

Greg, it wasnt that he was raising all in, it was that he would call pretty much any raise and a few times reraise. My goal was to move up the pay scale and take advantage of him when i could. But, with the blinds 2k/4k and then 3k/6k with him still around, to miss a flop against him could cost you the tournament. Also if he hit anything on the flop even a poor draw he would call you down. Thus I would only raise with strong hands but i wasnt afraid to limp in good position if he limped or call a raise from him to see the flop. But the moral of the story is that I wanted no part of him unless I was strong. Is that a good strategy?

[drewjustdrew]

I think you should play under your system as long as you have a decent stack of chips. If you become low man at the table and still have an OK stack of chips, you should probably try to double up against him. If he gets low on chips (25% of your stack for example), call his aggression with decent hands like ace-high (when at 5 players or so).

[CrisBrown]

Hi MuckMuck,

Your FIRST consideration has to be self-management, that is, controlling your emotions. Players like this can easily induce put you on tilt -- indeed, that's part of their strategy! -- and get you to play bad cards, or to play your good cards badly. You kept calm, and outlasted him to 2nd place. So congratulations!

Okay ... so how do you handle Jerry the Jackal ... the player who will call with nothing, raise or reraise with anything, and is all but impossible to get out of a pot?

KEY: Jackals raise both the effective odds and the implied odds for every hand, so play accordingly.

You slowplay big pairs. This will minimize your pre-flop risks (reducing effective odds), conceal the strength of your hand from the other players, and allow you to profit from his aggression (increasing implied odds).

You play more hands that benefit from higher implied odds: strong drawing hands like JTs, and medium and low pocket pairs. If you make your draw, you know he'll pay you off(better implied odds). If you miss it, you can lay down the hand easily (lower effective odds).

You bluff and semi-bluff less (he's won't fold), but bet for value more, because your marginal hand may well be the best hand, especially if he checks, or only called your last bet. (He'd bet or raise if he had anything.)

In short, you take note of the way his play has changed the structure of the game, and you adjust your play to that new structure. This maximizes your advantage against weaker players (who can't recognize and adjust), and reduces your risks against the Jackal himself.

Cris

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Yes, in general. The hard part about dealing with players like this is not them per se, but everybody else. You are going to hate it when you call this guy's all-in raise with AT and get overcalled by AJ. Whereas if you had called anybody else's all-in raise, the guy with AJ wouldn't have even considered overcalling. Thus, you can let yourself get trapped by a better hand if you try to take full advantage of the maniac.

On the other hand, if you play too tight, he's going to succeed in grinding you down to the point where you're hard-pressed to make a comeback.

So, if everybody else is backing down from him, you can step up, take some risk, and play the top 15% or so of your starters for a big pot. But, if others are coming in also, you need to tighten up so you can still be getting your money in good.

Once it is heads-up with the maniac, don't get timid. If you have AK and he's betting after you flop nothing, you can't back down or he wins. That's the whole point of his strategy. To get people to fold their better hands. With a guy like this you often have to grit your teeth and risk elimination. If you're not willing, make that decision before you enter the pot at all. Don't fold against a player like this AFTER putting a big fraction of your chips into the pot.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)