QQ, the bane of my existence

[Shargaas]

QQ, the third-best starting hand in hold 'em. Against most other starting hands, it should win more than its fair share of pots. Yet when it gets dealt to me, nothing good ever happens. The last 15 times I have been dealt QQ, I have lost the hand. The last time I won with it, it was with a flopped set, several times previous to that, I also lost.

I raise or re-raise pre-flop every time. Several flops have come with an A (or both A and K), several times I have been rivered by two-pairs, trips or inside straights. Four times out of the 15, my QQ was an overpair to the board, only to be shown AA at the showdown.

What can I do? It's getting to the point where I feel I should simply call with QQ, hope to hit the set, and if I don't, fold. Obviously this is a ridiculous strategy and statistically QQ will eventually win money. Meanwhile when I see the QQ, my hair turns a shade greyer. There is a pro player whom I saw playing on the Poker Million and the commentators were saying he hates JJ, and presumably folds it at every opportunity due to his superstition. His nickname was "Sugar Daddy" but his actual name escapes me. If it's good enough for him, maybe I should do the same with QQ.

I know that QQ should win often enough to be profitable. It's a Group 1 hand according to Skalnsky. There are always statistical anamolies in poker, this is likely one of them. Any advice on how to ride out the storm until the gods of chance smile on my QQ again?

[Aces McGee]

My advice is to fold QQ the next 100 times you get it, but pay attention to how much money you WOULD have won if you had played it. That should probably keep you from thinking this way again. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Seriously, from reading your post, it's obvious that you know what the correct play is. Just grit your teeth and raise it up.

You might also want to examine your post flop play when holding it. Remember, having the third-best starting hand in Hold 'Em doesn't entitle you to any pot. Make sure you aren't going too far with it just because it's QQ (A mistake I make often).

Aces McGee

[Mike Gallo]

I know that QQ should win often enough to be profitable. It's a Group 1 hand according to Skalnsky. There are always statistical anamolies in poker, this is likely one of them. Any advice on how to ride out the storm until the gods of chance smile on my QQ again? The last 15 times I have been dealt QQ, I have lost the hand. The last time I won with it, it was with a flopped set, several times previous to that, I also lost.

This mean you should win the next 30 times you have Queens.

[BigEndian]

This mean you should win the next 30 times you have Queens.

The next 15 times I think. QQ is no more than a 50% winner on a 10 seated table fellas. QQ will get smacked down often. The trick is to not overplay it so that your winnings (which are made up in good part of wins on the turn) aren't over-shadowed by your loses (which you usually play though to the river).

Myself, I treat QQ much more like JJ and TT now.

- Groove

[Mike Gallo]

Myself, I treat QQ much more like JJ and TT now.

I have won the last three hands that I have had Jacks with.

I posted two hands today where I had the winning hand with Jacks.

I think poker like life has an ebb and a flow. However over the long haul a player should win more with Queens than a random hand.

[BigEndian]

I don't understand. I'm also about a 50% winner with TT and JJ. Runs of wins with any of the three hands as well as runs of losses don't really mean much. I suspect we're in vigorous agreement though /images/graemlins/smile.gif.

- Groove

[Mike Gallo]

Groove,

Sarcasm gets lost in the translation.

Runs of wins with any of the three hands as well as runs of losses don't really mean much.

Thats the point I wanted to make, however you made it for me.

[Shargaas]

After I posted, I started thinking about post-flop play with the QQ. I agree with you wholeheartedly that I should pay very close attention to how I am playing it post-flop. I don't know it there is any way I can fold it if it still an overpair to the board, but I am wondering if I should have known the other players had AA. The problem is, I see pre-flop capping with KTs, 77, A3s etc. etc. Tough to tell what players have pre-flop. These times they did indeed have the AA. Regardless, I will definitely pay close attention to what I am doing post-flop with QQ (or any big pair) while trying not to get scared into being passive.

Thanks Aces for your advice, but instead of folding QQ a hundred times, I'll fold 32o a hundred times and see how much money I save /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[TheRake]

It is funny (to me at least /images/graemlins/wink.gif) in the limited number of hands I have in poker tracker thus far (about 4500) QQ is my biggest winner pulling in almost 6bb/hand...This is almost twice what I am making with AA or KK at the moment. I am sure this will level out eventually, but for now it has given me great confidence to ram and jam with them.