PLO8 postflop action - how did everyone play?

[nicky g]

10c-25c on UB. A bunch of limpers preflop, and the SB raises the pot ($1.5), gets 4 callers.
Flop comes 346. Both blinds check. UTG+1 min bets. MP raises $2.5, bit under half the pot, with KK57, the nut high and an irrelevant low, leaving him with $12. CO, with $20, calls with 2456 2nd nut high, top 2 and crappy low. Now the button raises all-in for about another $3 with A2JQ - nut low, no high. The blinds fold, UTG folds. MP with the high straight calls, leaving him $9 or so. Now the CO reraises all-in, and MP calls.

How did they each play it?

[Acesover8s]

A lot of the play here depends on the texture of the game. When MP raises with his 7 high straight he should be raising the full pot and only if he thinks hes got a good chance of securing the entire pot right then, this requires a game where many players are frightened of getting quartered, the UB game is not one of them. Furthermore, his hand should have been mucked preflop.

The 2456 is actually a more reasonable hand. No one has to have the nut straight and if they do he has redraws, and hhe has a draw to the nut low still. I would have made the call here.

The buttons raise is not smart since he has little chance at winning high. He doesn't want to knock anyone behind him out. His last 3$ is going to go in on the following streets anyway, so he should just call.

The cutoffs all in raise is fine. He's only risking 9$ more dollars and its easy to assume he has at least 1/2 of the sidepot locked up.

This is a good example hand of how tricky PLO/8 can be. You have two players with their respective nut hands and neither of them should be betting.

[crockpot]

my take:

(i assume a rainbow flop. if not, there were a lot more screwups than this.)

MP - i think this flop play is actually correct (shocking!) what he should be rooting for is CO or button to call with a set or two pair, then someone to raise with the nut low and get more money in the pot. then he can blast out the draws on the turn or get them to call incorrectly for all their chips.

if you're playing in a game where hands like 64xx or 33xx will call the full pot, then pot it instead.

as for the preflop call, it's not great, but i think it will show a profit if you can anticipate the five-way action for the flop. a set of kings is usually a monster in this game.

(edit: this is also a considerably better hand than KK95. note that if K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 3 /images/graemlins/club.gif flops and you are called by a flush draw, you now have a better chance of escaping with half the pot. still, i would much rather have a better backdoor low to rely on, like KK43.)

CO - has no business even playing this hand, let alone for a pot raise. i think he played the flop correctly, even though it turns out he is behind both ways. 75 is definitely not necesarily out there, and he has outs in both directions if behind. the push-in after MP flat calls the raise is a necessity, as CO is virtually always going to be on a sidepot freeroll on this action.

button - his money is so short that he really has no choice but to go all-in on the flop here. should have folded pre-flop to the pot raise, however. if he had the full $25 in front of him, he could call the raise with a suited ace.

the biggest idiot? SB, for raising pot with his AAxx preflop out of position. also nominated is UTG+1, for min betting for no reason. i don't care if it is 25 cents, there is just no point to that bet.

[nicky g]

Thanks to both for comments. It was a rainbow flop btw.

One thing that occurred to me; both of you have commented that the CO has outs both ways. Given that his only low outs if he's losing are the remaining aces, and that two of the aces are quite likely to be in SB's hand ( though I can't say for sure) based on his raise, and at least one of the other bettors probably has the nut low, surely his chances at improving for low are negligible?

I thought the CO played quite badly given that he is playing for half the pot and has a shaky grasp on it, although his hand can improve; but I like your cases for how he played it.

Should MP have reraised all-in? What about CO raising the pot first time round in the hope of pushing A2 (unlikely in this game, admittedly) or A5 out so that he has a chance at both low and high (ie is unlikely to be losing both ways heads up, and may be on a freeroll to fill up?)

For those in need of closure: the turn paired the six, giving CO half the main pot and all the side pot, and the button half the main pot.

[crockpot]

i'm definitely not going to award anyone any medals for their play here. but CO did have a 20% chance to hit a virtual lock for one side of the pot, even assuming two or three dead aces, and combining that with his chances of being ahead for high right now, he has enough to play on. if all stacks were deeper, i think CO should fold since he can easily get trapped later in the hand.

and if you asked me which of these hands i would most like to have in CO's spot here against two unknown hands, i proably pick the 6542.

on a sidenote, is it possible the UB PLO8 games have loosened up again? when i went back to clear my bonus, they had tightened up to the point where i was grinding out a profit by stealing pots.

[nicky g]

This game started very loose with a lot of action and huge pots, but after a while, it tightened up considerably. Most of the time when I play there it's the same bunch of tightish, but not very good, players, but I play at lunchtime mostly, which is early morning in America, so I don't know what they're like at peak time.

I feel really sick. /images/graemlins/frown.gif