how do the pros play a hand like this??

[WyattErb]

Holdem Pot limit, i am mp, the game is very tight, almost no preflop raising. i get QQ, only the sb and bb are in the game right now(25/50 stakes) i raise to 100! only the button calls, everybody else folds.
the flop is to my liking 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/heart.gif 10 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif......i bet the pot(275; btw, we have both about 2300chips left) he calls!
next card is the J /images/graemlins/spade.gif....i am not to worried, so i bet the pot again. he calls, so there is more than 2000 in the pot, last card is the K /images/graemlins/spade.gif, i dont think him to have a king, so bet the pot again, and he calls! he has the A /images/graemlins/spade.gif and the 9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif, making him the flush!!!! did i do anything wrong? i really need some advice for this one!

[1800GAMBLER]

Raise more preflop, everything else seems standard.

[WyattErb]

but when i raise the pot preflop, dont i drive everybody out?? only getting 75chips for my QQ seems a little less, no? ok, i had a shitty position...

[1800GAMBLER]

Thinking back, raise whatever amount will make sure you don't just steal the blinds. If you read the table and your amount seemed right, which it proved to be, then do it.

My raise more preflop was a very general comment, i do vary here a lot too.

Think about raising lesser hands if you are getting no action.

[Jon Matthews]

If this is a tournament, I'd be tempted to push in on the turn, make it look like the J helped me or a steal. If he folds I still get 900 or so pot and if the game is as tight as you say I'd be happy with that, I can sit back for a couple of rounds then...

Raising more preflop would also have helped, maybe to 150 or 200, surely they'll call a 2-3BB raise? this would have allowed bigger bets in the other betting rounds without overbetting... an important consideration


Jon

[Greg (FossilMan)]

If you raise 3xBB and are almost certain to win the blinds, then you should be raising more often, not just with premium hands like QQ. Then this problem fixes itself, as they either give you more action when you want it, or you steal your way to a nice win repeatedly. If I knew I could raise and take the blinds twice per round and get away with it forever, I would be perfectly happy to do so. Nobody in the world would have a long-term win rate better than me.

So my answer refects that you've already gotten. Raise to 150 rather than 100 preflop. Bet the flop and turn as you did.

However, check that river card. If he checks behind, fine. Your bet will not get a Kx, a straight, or a flush to fold, but it will get most or all of the hands you beat to fold. On the other hand, if you check, you will face a bet from the hands you lose to, PLUS some or many of the hands you can still beat. Induce that bluff!

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[crockpot]

note that it's pot limit, so he bet the most he could on the turn.

as for how the pros would play this hand, they would raise the full pot preflop, but after that they would play it the same way. the real question is how phil hellmuth would react after suffering the beat you did. i would pay to see that.

[Jon Matthews]

oh, i missed the PL reference, that makes raising preflop much more important

i learnt big bet by playing PL home games and NL online games, i found NL much easier to learn and make money in as there was less preflop raising so i got to see how much more of my starting hands worked out

since people aren't able to overbet in PL, the pot needs to be pumped early, i'm surprised at how tight the guys in this post were playing

Jon

[WyattErb]

Thanks for the replies! any suggestions on what's the best book for learning big bet poker???

[Guy McSucker]

Reuben and Ciaffone "Pot Limit and No Limit Poker" is the best big-bet book in my opinion. Brunson "Super System" is also required reading. Everything else is pretty poor.

For any form of tournament play, Sklansky's "Tournament Poker for Advanced Players" is essential.

Guy.

[leon]

Greg, if you bet the pot on the flop and turn, and assuming you don't know much about the caller, would you call a pot sized bet on the river? Discount any tells you might pick up. It's hard to imagine him having a hand here you can beat. There was no draw on on the flop.

Leon

[Greg (FossilMan)]

I can't discount tells. There's not much else to go on with that decision, unless you have a history with the guy to draw upon also/instead. He could easily have AT, amongst other hands you can still beat. Admittedly, however, the situation looks grim. But tells or history are definitely going to drive my decision here.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)