how do you guys keep focused

[Noodles]

I am currently playing at pokertropolis,and wow is this game aggressive,every single PF is raised.Guys reraising with 76o and the like.
but thing is i am getting absolute crap so i have not played more than 3 hands in the last hour.
So i am just trying to watch and observe the players,but every 15 mins I get bored and start surfing the web.
how do you guys stay staring at the screen for long stretches and stay concentrating.
Maybe i dont have the patience for this game?

[Bob T.]

I play usually play short sessions about an hour to an hour and a half, and then take a break. On the break, I make sandwiches, surf the web, post on 2+2, and then when I am ready, I go back an play.

[squiffy]

You need to be very very careful when playing at small non-Party sites. I am regularly profitable at Party micro-limits. But have been struggling at Pacific, down about $30 to $50.

Then one night I ran into two or three players, who seemed to be helping one another out, either tacitly or by telephone. They were raising and capping with nothing. I think I have seen them playing together before, which makes me suspicious. And I think I have seen them enter and leave a game at the same time.

You would think they would be more careful. And it might not have been collusion. But I am always suspicious of wild, aggressive play.

And I am talking here, not about an occasional cap, but every single hand for an extended period. I should have left immediately, but wanted to see if I could steal a big pot from them.

Anyway, lost about $100 to them and should have known better. That's a lot of money to lose at 1-2 when I typically make $25 or $30 in a short session.

They may just be very aggressive players. But that is not a TYPICAL micro-limit game, when compared to Party.

At a smaller site, the players may be explicitly colluding by telephone, or they may know one another's play so well, that they are tacitly colluding to scare you out of pots.

If one has a great hand, they can trap you between them when you have an ok hand. You may be reluctant to release it, especially because they often seem to cap with nothing.

But if two or three players are working together, it is very possible that one of them has a solid hand.

[squiffy]

Party is best for me. I can play two games. And both games move quickly. So I don't get bored.

On Pacific, and at many of the other sites, the action is so slow that I get bored. Also, at Pacific you can only play one table at a time. I regret going to Pacific and will never return again, once I win back my $100.

[rkiray]

I usually only play one table. What I do is always watch until the flop. If there was a lot of preflop action or an opponent I'm especially interested in is in, I watch the entire hand. If the hand appears to be routine I'll surf the web (often here). At Paradise I have a huge database and have played many hands against many of the solid regular players. These guys I've taken exhaustive notes on and studied all the hands they have shown down. So many times I don't feel like I need to watch every play. Maybe I'm just lazy, or don't have an adequete attention span.

[Noodles]

I dont know if you collude at 1/2$ limits how much are you going to make?
Anyway i was playing here yesterday with different players and it was aggressive but not like today.
This is unreal,95% PFs are raised,not uncommon to see a 3bet with 9Ts.
If i could only get a decent hand once in a while i would make a fortune;-)

[SamJack]

[ QUOTE ]
once I win back my $100.

[/ QUOTE ]
Why do you care about making the $100 bucks back? Couldn't you just play at party during that time and make back the $100 faster?

Sam

[squiffy]

Yes. But I am pissed off that my poker ability is so poor that I cannot win at Pacific, whereas I can easily win at Party. It is not rational. But emotional.

I started with a $200 deposit and got the $50 bonus. I won about $50 and was at $300, and thought, wow Pacific really is as soft as people say.

Then I lost the $50 and another $50. I am not sure if my play changed or whether the games just were not as soft as I initially thought. Anyway I seemed to be running into better players. Games kept breaking. I kept seeing the same names all the time, which I do not like. I would much rather be playing against a different mix of players every day.

But in short. Yes. I am up about $1500 playing at Party over 3-4 months. And down $100 of my own money, plus out the $50 bonus at Pacific.

But, as a personal goal, I want to win my money back before leaving. I still play daily at party. And play a few round at Pacific also. So it is not as if I spend that much time at Pacific.

But I hate Pacific and after my Pacific experience have vowed never to try Paradise, True, Cardroom, or any other site.

Party has been the easiest money for me, with the loosest most aggressive opponents.

[squiffy]

That is a good point. Notetaking helps your game, by forcing you to pay attention and by providing you with future data about opponents.

But does Pokertropolis have a note-taking feature? I don't think Pacific has one. Which contributes to my boredom there. At least at Party I can play two tables or play one table and take notes.

Again, based on my one visit to Pokertropolis, I am not sure I understand why someone would choose to play there, when there are other options, which to me seem far superior -- by that I mean faster moving, more entertaining, and far more profitable.

[SamJack]

I hate Pacific as well. The play is so slow. About 2 weeks ago, I my self went on a tilt after bad beats and lost my bankroll there. I was up a lot. Only to lose is in a span a two sessions.

I decided never to go back... Unless there are bonuses to be had of course.

Sam

[squiffy]

We are getting way off topic. But I can easily make about $20 to $30 in a short session playing at $1-$2 poker. Sometimes much more. So it is clearly fun and worth it for me to play legitimately.

If I colluded, perhaps I could make even more.

Granted, you probably find more colluders and better colluders at higher limits. But you can make money colluding in poker at any limit. And if you are going to practice colluding, wouldn't you practice at a low limit and refine your technique before you move to a higher limit?

I think three or four friends playing together at the same table and colluding my telephone could make a lot of money at $1-$2. And they might do it just to see if they can do it.

I don't think they would feel the need to make $1 million dollars doing it.

[Noodles]

I went to pokertropolis to get the 50$ bonus,as soon as i can cash it in i will leave.
Have you played at Planet i signed up yesterday but i couldnt log into cashier and they arent sorting it out.are they a didgy outfit?

[umdpoker]

has pacific payed anybody here? i actually made about $150 there and requested a payout a couple days ago and still have not received the money. please tell me i didn't get ripped off.

[squiffy]

Sam you are the first person I have run into who has had a similar experience at Pacific. But I constantly hear from a lot of posters here that Pacific is soft.

That is definitely not my experience at the micro-limits. Maybe they are playing $5-10 and above or are far better players.

In any event, I have half a mind to withdraw my remaining hundred. But I am so angry, part of me wants to keep trying to win it back.

Anyway, I am starting to question the motives of many of the posters here who champion non-Party sites. I wonder if they are props or somehow involved in promoting those sites. Sometimes their arguments and pro-Pacific stances sound like false propaganda.

Thanks for sharing your experience.

Anyway, the bottom line is that Party is the fishiest and most profitable for me. And after I get out of Pacific, I will never again try a non-Party site. Period.

[Robk]

Try this: Make a game out of recording the worst preflop decision each of your opponents makes in each of the possible scenarios (ie openraised, openlimped, and called raises). I also like to record the best hand my opponent limped with. So your notes look like:

raised UTG A9o
coldcalled EP raise J7s
limped EP Q2s
limped LP TT

etc. In addition to forcing you to pay attention, the information can often be useful.

[Noodles]

How long is a session? They say most really good pros wll make 1.5 BB an hour.

[rkiray]

I don't know if pokertropolis has notes. Never played there. (To be honest, I've never heard of it before today).

[Noodles]

I will give that one a go,but you only see opponents cards if they show at showdown
.So most time i dont get to see what they are up to

[squiffy]

Payouts are a separate issue. Don't know anything about that. But sometimes Empire takes 4 or more days to pay me through IGMPAY. So I wouldn't worry at all until 5-6 business days have passed.

As far as I know the site is completely legitimate. My problem is that the games are too slow, break up too easily, and have far too many new faces. And once out of 10-20 sessions I ran into three players who seemed to be colluding.

And I often see two players enter or leave games together. Though I see that on Party as well. It always makes me suspicious. But since I generally win money on Party, it doesn't matter much, even if they are trying to collude.

But since Pacific games move so slowly, that would be an ideal place to collude by telephone. First, if I got caught and got kicked off, I wouldn't care much because I could still play and make money on Party. I would never even consider colluding on Party because it is so easy to make money there legitimately.

Second, because the games move so slowly, there would be plenty of time to discuss hands and cards with your partners over the phone.

[squiffy]

Oh, I don't really keep close track. It's just a hobby for me. My sessions range anywhere from 3-5 hours. I usually play after work from say 5-10 pm or so. And I have no idea how much I earn per hour. But I am definitely up $1500, about a third or half of which is from Party bonuses.

And I based on the posts I have made here, I am an average to below average player.

Though as an estimate.

I was up $210 at Intertops because of the $100 bonus and from earning about $110 playing .50-1 and 1-2 and 2-4 over a week or two. Then I tried a few hands of 5-10 and stupidly lost the $110 in a few hands.

I went back down to .50-1 and earned about $70 over the past 3-4 days, playing 2-3 hours a day.

[squiffy]

That's excellent advice. I am working on adding more details to my notes. Previously I only noted down their hand, whether they raised or called preflop. And whether they won or lost. I have not been putting in any more detail. Perhaps I should hand record the opponent and the game number and just review the hand history.

[goodguy_1]

I usually play 3 or 4 ring games sometimes 5 including a tourney or two.More tables require more focus so you dont find yourself daydreaming.But If you cant consistently beat 1 or 2 tables this is not the answer obvioulsy.

3 tables is most comfortable less than that I lose focus and start multi-tasking ..websufing ,email etc.I no longer watch TV unless I am chilling out like playing 1 or 2 games.I am able to play multi-tables because I play at limits where the players are poor.. this is at $2-4 and $3-6 mostly and some $5-10 LHE and $25/$50 PLO and NLHE.In BigBet games I most focus more eventhough stakes are still low..more inherent danger of losing a big chunk of cheese if you are careless.
If I move up in limit from there I play fewer tables ..when I play short $2-4-$5-10 I only play 2 tables max.

You only need to FOCUS if you are playing decent thinking,tricky aggressive opponents if you are a capable player.If you need to really focus to win at low limits you need to work more on your game than on ways to be focused.If you dont have the skillset your focus wont do dick.

When you move up in limits and other players have somewhat equal skills than FOCUS is required. I usually am on autopilot in games that are 5-10 handed at lower limits..as soon as I sense my competion is full of skilled aggresive players I then need to focus and play fewer tables or play in an easier game.Hehe one way to get focused is get run over on 3 tables all at once ..ouchenheimer..lol!!

To focus best turn off the fugging tv and any other audio and do not muti-task.
Also something that is fun that will increase your focus is try playing new games-4 card games are very profitable!!!

and yes notetaking is definetly helpfull during downtime.I have notes on all regular Party players I know that are decent from 2-4 to 15-30..I need to work much more on notes for fishytypes thu..but they are in and out of the site so fast that it doesnt seem worth it.

ADD AL

[goodguy_1]

Do Not play at PokerTropolis .I think there are teams there.Other posters have posted about this:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=inet&Number=323820&Forum=A ll_Forums


what I have found strange about Pokertroplois is the games seem to be always full or completely empty even at night..and that seems strange.

[squiffy]

These are good points.

You know, sometimes we think in terms of trying to make ourselves focus better. But from my limited study of psychology, everyone has a certain level of stimulation which they need to pay attention.

So instead of thinking, how can I force myself to focus, perhaps we should be thinking about what OPTIMAL level of stimulation do I need to perform well.

The answer depends on three factors.

1. Your playing ability at a given poker limit.

2. The amount of effort needed to be profitable at a given limit.

3. The number of poker activities or non-poker activities you can add to increase your stimulation level.

If you are bored, your mind is not receiving enough environmental stimuli. It can handle more data and needs to handle more data to keep from being bored.

1. You have high poker ability and can easily play 1 table at 1-2. To be profitable, you do not need to use 100% of your energy and attention. You have plenty of deadtime and your mind is wandering.

You can either add a poker activity or non-poker activity. A non-poker activity would include watching tv, readig a book, or surfing the web. But you need to realize that by adding a non-poker activity you are increasing your risk of making a mistake at the table. And you need to be carefuly not to add too many activities.

You could instead add a poker activity, such as taking notes on the players and their hands. Or reviewing a poker book to see the correct play of situations that arise onscreen. Or you could order and review hand histories for this table and get a clue to your opponents' playing styles.

Another option would be to add a second 1-2 table.

Another option would be to move to a higher limit that may require more attention to be profitable, and just play one table.

[squiffy]

One thing to be careful of, if you are a new player. Poker is a lot more complex than you may think. And as a newbie, I oftentimes don't know what to look for. By coming to this forum you will start to learn about nuances of play that you had never even thought of.

So sometimes a game can seem boring because as a newbie, you think there is little or nothing going on. When in fact, you are receiving a ton of information, but do not recognize it as helpful or critical.

Sometimes it is good to try a little of both approaches. Sometimes just play one game and take very good notes and try to play close attention to each player's betting and calling and preflop decisions. Force yourself to learn and think about each hand. This is not always fun.

I know I can play chess for fun without thinking. Or I can think carefully and play carefully. I am not always in the mood to think carefully.

At other times, you can play two or three micro-limit games and just wait for top hands and bet them. You may not be LEARNING a lot. And you may not be playing OPTIMALLY. But you are mechanically waiting for top hands.

IF YOUR LONG TERM GOAL is to improve and play at higher limits against more seasoned opponents. You have to learn to pay attention to one game and think more deeply about it.
But this won't happen overnight. And you don't have to devote every single session for the rest of your life to the type of deep-thinking spiritually profound poker that takes you to the next level.

Sometimes, you can go on auto pilot and just play squish the fish, with premium hands.

Which style you use to employ on a given night is up to you, so long as you realize that you have these options open to you.

But if you NEVER work on improving your game, if you NEVER try to focus hard and study all 9 of your opponents and their play, then you will either not improve your play or if you do improve, it will happen at a much slower pace than if you focus.

[colgin]

[ QUOTE ]
Anyway, I am starting to question the motives of many of the posters here who champion non-Party sites. I wonder if they are props or somehow involved in promoting those sites. Sometimes their arguments and pro-Pacific stances sound like false propaganda.

[/ QUOTE ]

Squiffy,

I may be one of the people to whom you are referring here since I answered one of your prior posts concerning Pacific. I can' speak for anyone else, of course, so maybe there are some shills or props for Pacific and other sites (although I doubt it) posting here. I am not. First, I was never touting Pacific or even recommending people play there. I was only giving my opinion that, at least at the lower limits at which I play, the games there are very beatable. (In fact, it is not really at all in my self-interest to have winning 2+2ers join the games there.) Otherwise, I think it is a terrible site for all the reasons given above -- no notes, no multiple tables, agonizingly slow play, no tourneys, no NL, etc. As soon as the games get tough there I will drop them without hesitation. In the mean time, however, I make a good deal of profit there. Not every day mind you. Last night I had probably my worst series of sessions ever -- minus 25 BB in one evening. Then I reminded myself that I had been up 15 BB in the morning, so a total of -10 BB for the day. It's poker, after all; losses will happen. I plan to continue to play there as long as it is profitable for me.

As for your determination to win back your money there, I think this is a mistake. Play on the tables that you know you can beat. Party seems to be very good for you so spend your energy there. Trying to get even at a particular site is essentially a form of tilt in my mind, like trying to break a given player from whom you have suffered several terrible beats. You should never be trying to get back at a particular player but simply winning money and picking the best situation for yourself to achieve that goal.

Finally, I have only one cashout experience with Pacific. I received the money back in my Neteller account within the time that Pacific had promised. They are not as quick as Poker Stars, for example, but they did deliver according to their own schedule.

Best of luck.

Colgin

[goodguy_1]

excellent points squiffy.

I guess it is a balancing act ..you want to play at a limit/level/#of tables that is optimal for your overall ev..this overall ev obvioulsy discounts your comfort level and comparative skills verus your opponents becuase that is shown thru your hourly earn.

There are many ways to skin a cat..I do what works for me now becuse it is easier..it is not necesarily the best way for me to progress and push myself as a player up the ranks but it is the least stressful way for me to make good money.
I really right now as we speak am trying to wean myself off the multi-table play at low limit ring games and play more higher stake games.With these games comes more stress thu and I have made alot of money being a wuss but I do have the skills to do it ..just complacent.
B&M I play much much higher.. online I use the spraygun approach...but I am not challenging myself as a player as much as I should.

We all have different attention spans..But the primary question of how to focus better must be linked to your Overall ev if ev is important to you.

Are you playing just for stimulation or to make money??Thousand of people play online poker for many different reasons aor a combiantion of reasons.Many play for recreation because it is stimualating and fun.Some play to make money purely ...they are the money machines.Some play to make money and need the stimulation ..most winning players are a hybrid of those two :money machines and ADD-types who's persoanlity do well at multi-tasking and absorbing globs of data quickly..traders are like this and many other professions like air-traffic contrtollers..etc

Do you need the focus to play well or do you need the focus just for focus sake boredom say.

You should be focused if you care to make money professionally or even recreationally as a poker player on.. what are your optimal conditions for you to make money...you need to be focused to do this but you need to play at level/#of tables where you can play better than your opponents and always make better decisions than your opponents..it's a balancing act ..you also need to consider your own health..poker for pure profit is stressful..do want to make less money but more consitnetly with less focus..or do you want to push harder to make more money with less consistent returns but better returns..

all questions I am asking myself now as a player..sorry for all the blabbing.

[goodguy_1]

I made 4k at Pacific playing $2-4/$15-30 about 6 months ago in a week and a half.The cashout sucked .I ended up get hooked with a $20 long distance charge when I had to repeatedly fax them my personal info..drivers license etc.

Games at higher limits there are very good.You regularly see all mid limit games with 8-9times bigbet pot averages.

Software is horribly slow only software I dislike more is InterCasino Poker.

Squiff you should be playing and kicking ass at Party ..no reaon to play anywhere else.
Dont complicate things.Screw the bonuses Play at levels you can beat at Party...work on your game and move up..

[squiffy]

This might explain the discrepancy between my experiences and the experiences of other posters. I have generally played .50-$1 and 1-2 at Pacific. And I have certainly found some soft games and weak players. But just not as many soft games and not as many weak players as Party.

[squiffy]

I didn't have a specific poster in mind, but certainly appreciate your input here!!!

[squiffy]

One thing you can do is hire someone to stand behind your chair and whack you on the head with a large stick whenever you seem to be losing your focus.