mossad and 911- mainstream news and sources

[brad]

http://ww1.sundayherald.com/37707

...
What we are left with, then, is fact sullied by innuendo. Certainly, it seems, Israel was spying within the borders of the United States and it is equally certain that the targets were Islamic extremists probably linked to September 11. But did Israel know in advance that the Twin Towers would be hit and the world plunged into a war without end; a war which would give Israel the power to strike its enemies almost without limit? That’s a conspiracy theory too far, perhaps. But the unpleasant feeling that, in this age of spin and secrets, we do not know the full and unadulterated truth won’t go away. Maybe we can guess, but it’s for the history books to discover and decide.

[brad]

just out of curiosity, how many americans u think are aware that israelis were arrested in connnection with 911?

think this has anything to do with perception that 'jews run the world' or 'jews run the media' ?

[brad]

its mainstream news. any comment?

[Ray Zee]

well i didnt know about it if it is true. but israel is certainly movtivated and does the same stuff that they cry about. but the real thing is and sad part is that our country might do the same kind of stuff itself. so why should we cry when we turn around and do similar things.

[MMMMMM]

brad, my personal opinion is that IF the Jews run the world (which I don't truly believe) it is because they are smarter than everyone else--which means it is the fault of the rest of the world for not being smarter themselves. In other words dummies get jealous because they aren't able or willing to do better themselves. Dwelling in envy is stupid and useless and anyone who is emotionally mature realizes this. So the rest of the world shouldn't blame or hate the Jews for being better off; the rest of the world should strive to better themselves instead. If they can't or won't then it is tough toenails. So all those masses claiming the Jews are smarter and richer and control more things just might be right to an extent--but that is THEIR fault, not the fault of the Jews. And if they turn their envy to rage instead of towards self-improvement then they act in a base manner and lower themselves further and no longer deserve to do well. It is like the parable of the talents: they can choose to use their talents--or they can bury them because they are not as rich as someone else, thus becoming wicked and slothful servants.

[Gamblor]

Do you all think we're like a secret organization?

Why is there even a construct called "the Jews"

There are Jewish people I hate, and Jewish people I like. They're like everyone else, except they follow a certain book for advice and guidance on how to live their lives.

Hiding safely behind the anonymity of the Internet, what is it about Jews that warrants such discussion? Do you think Jewish people get together and talk about Gentiles?

The only thing Jewish kids in Jewish day schools learn about Gentiles is bible stories, the Crusades, the Spanish Inquisition, the Holocaust (good - Wallenberg and Schindler, and bad), and the origins of the Jewish holidays (they tried to kill us, we survived, let's eat).

[MMMMMM]

Those questions puzzle me too. It is especially baffling that a relatively small handful of people could be so widely disliked for no really good reason, but that seems to be the case.

1.2 billion Muslims and 15 million Jews...why the heck the Muslims should even CARE that the Jews exist is beyond me, yet they seem to be obsessed with them. If 1.2 billion people can't get their collective act together in the modern world, there is something wrong with what they are doing; the general problems of Muslims in the world today do not stem from the existence of a small population of people called the Jews, and never have.

[adios]

Perhaps this book would be enlightening for some.
Judaism For Dummies (http://www.wileyeurope.com/WileyCDA/WileyTitle/productCd-0764552996.html)

[brad]

well im almost certain its true (this and other mossad stories/reports) since ive read them in various places including big newspapers like sunday herald.

cameron did 4 part news report on fox network.

but basically the story shows a) media manipulation

but much more importantly

b) US government is lying at best about 911, while at worst it shows active participation.

also note that project northwoods outlines just such a plan to blow up american buildings, kill americans, etc., to create a 'helpful wave of indignation'.

[brad]

well to be honest the world is 'run' by tremendously wealthy powerful handful of people.

most are european royalty and old money, not jews, but of course their favorite game is to set up false paradigms and play one sect against another. if you think jews run the world youre crazy. look who founded israel. it wasnt jews.

but basically they get groups to take the heat for them.

but of course main point is that israel doesnt speak for all jews,

and

corrupt israeli governemnt and its criminal commando assasination teams certainly do not speak for all israelis.

do you think CIA runs dope into US cities because 'they are smarter', and that we shouldnt envy them because theyve found a way to make (tremendous) money? that we should make money ourselves?

[MMMMMM]

brad, I don't think Jews run the world. But if they did so disproprtionately I would say it is the fault of others for not being better or smarter themselves. In other words the Arabs and Muslims have themselves not the Jews to blame for their current conditions.

"do you think CIA runs dope into US cities because 'they are smarter', and that we shouldnt envy them because theyve found a way to make (tremendous) money? that we should make money ourselves?"

I don't think the CIA runs dope into major US cities although I wouldn't be too surprised if a small group of renegade CIA profiteers did so at some time.

[Boris]

So following your logic the Jews have only themselves to blame for the holocaust?

***Note - just to be clear. I don't blame Jews for the holocaust and I don't subscribe to any of those "holocaust never happened" theories. I also don't believe that Jews run the world.

[MMMMMM]

No, and that is not following my logic, either.

[Chris Alger]

The problem with stories like these is that they're written (and read) with emphasis on the scintillating details that suggest high darkness among the cloke-and-dagger crowd, and bury the meat down toward the bottom.

The innuendo about the guys in New Jersey "celebrating" the WTC attacks isn't credible. Of course, spies in New Jersey could not possibly have been "shadowing" hijackers flying out of Boston, something the article expressly suggests. This leaves more credulous readers to wonder if they knew the intended target, as the article also suggests, and then grabbed a back-row seat in New Jersey (as opposed to Brooklyn's Prospect Park front row) but were dumb enough to celebrate in full public view. The article also fails to provide anything more concrete tying this particular crew to 9-11. Which leaves their own story perfectly plausible: even if some or all of them worked some or part of the time with or for Mossad, they happened to be in the country's largest metropolitan area by the same coincidence that 11 million other people were. Along with most of those people, they heard about the first plane and went to see what they could see. As for their "celebrating" 9-11, this is nothing new. Several current and former Israeli officials were quoted as saying that 9-11 would "help" Israel. Ma'ariv called it the largest propaganda gift in Israel's history. (By the same token, the Palestinian leadership recognized 9-11 as an unprecedented disaster).

Nor is there anything new in the fact that Israel spies on the U.S. (as the U.S. probably spies on Israel), or that Mossad might have had an open file on several of the hijackers and have been following them. The same was probably true of the CIA. And while there might be something to the notion that intelligence welcomed terrorism, it's just as plausible that (1) intelligence agents do not coordinate properly with actual law enforcement and are lousy at doing it themselves; and (2) the hijackers being Saudi made the matter more sensitive than would otherwise be the case if they were ordinary terrorists. Keeping the Royal House of Saud both happy and in power involves a lot of eggshell walking. Concern for the Saudi connection might have hindered both U.S. and Israeli intelligence from doing the job they should have.

[Boris]

[ QUOTE ]
But if they [Jews] did so [influence the world] disproprtionately I would say it is the fault of others [Arab Muslims] for not being better or smarter themselves.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well maybe you can explain your worldview behind this statement. I see two possibilities.

1. You have a somewhat Darwinistic view whereby the dominant group is dominant because they are "better or smarter". Therefore, in order to determine which group is better or smarter we need only determine which group is dominant.

2. You don't agree with the above statement and have simply come to an arbitraty conclusion that jews are better and smarter than arabs.

[MMMMMM]

Neither.

I'm saying that IF the Jews are smarter and more successful than much of the rest of the world then it is up to the rest of the world to improve themselves, rather than despising the Jews for their success. Also, I'm noting that to whatever degree the Arabs and Muslims lack success, they ought to be focusing their attentions on self-improvement rather than obsessing about the tiny worldwide Jewish population.

[Gamblor]

Your lack of context belies one of two things:
1) You are skewing the facts to demonize Israelis and glorify Palestinians.
2) Books and essays do not provide any sense of what actually goes on in these places. It turns real people's lives into footnotes and page references.

For the sake of humanity, I'll assume it is the latter.

(By the same token, the Palestinian leadership recognized 9-11 as an unprecedented disaster).

Public relations disaster, maybe.

Imagine that, their support and complicity of terrorists is fine for the Jewish country, but when any other country gets hit it's a disaster.

Because they realized their brothers in arms had brought a big bad international policeman into their own conflict. But for the common man, the Palestinian Arabs were partying in the street after 9/11.

By contrast, the Israeli street was in mourning for a long time. It was all anyone talked about for weeks. With quiet reservation, Israelis began to realize that finally, their political "best friend" realized what Israelis have been dealing with for years, and now that the war had hit their own shores, the US and Israel were victimized in the same way, and Israel's war on terror would be given new strength.

By the way, what was the reaction throughout Europe at the bombing of Pearl Harbour?

[southerndog]

MMMMMMMMM,

I agree and disagree with you. Your statement is somewhat correct, but it doesn't address the issue at hand.

There does seem to be a lot of Jewish doctors, lawyers, etc. And that is to there credit. But, that does not mean Israel can do whatever they want, and US policy decisions should be made based on the fact that Jewish people are smart, right?

I also agree with the fact that Arabs and Muslims would be a lot better off worrying about there own injustices rather than what is going on between Israel and Palestine. "Hey, we have some horrible dictator as a leader, everybody except for like 4 people live in poverty, but, you know, Israel is the enemy.."

That's my rant...

Dog

[MMMMMM]

Nice post, and I agree with your points.

As for the "issue at hand", I was not talking about Israel, though, nor was I addressing the linked article brad provided. Rather I started my posts in this thread as a response to a follow-up post brad made to his own initial post. In that post he wrote: "think this has anything to do with perception that 'jews run the world' or 'jews run the media' ?" So I was addressing the matter of that perception (and Mahathir's applauded remarks too, by the way) and basically saying the everyone should be concerned with self-improvement rather than envy, especially regarding the Jews who are often demonized for their successes (what a bizarre sort of bigotry). Probably I should have made it more clear that I was only addressing that from brad's response to his own post, not his initial post.

[Gamblor]

That's the point, dog.

The only reason there's a problem 35 years on is because those Arab dictators use the Palestinians as pawns, to keep them in permanent refugee status to avoid having to:

a) turn policy inward to effect change in their dictatorial regimes - be they monarchs (Jordan), religious rule (Iran), or perma-presidents (Egypt).

b) legitimize the existence of a state in the Arabian region that is not ruled by Muslims.

c) give Jews sovereign rights in any nation that also contains Muslims.

Interesting note - the Ayatollah remarked yesterday that the very existence of Israel is a threat to Iranian national interests. Hmmm. Just another enemy to watch out for.

[Chris Alger]

You need to do some serious growing up.

[Gamblor]

Does this mean you do not care to address the issue of Palestinians handing out candies and firing rifles in the air upon the hearing the news of 9/11?

Or perhaps the constant vigils in Kikar Rabin, at the Wailing Wall, and pretty much all over Israel?

[Gamblor]

'Twas not the Ayatollah who made the comment, but rather government official Velayati.

"Israel's existence (is) diametrically opposed to Iran's national interests"

Wow. I never could have seen that coming from an Arabian (or Persian) mouth.