Did I go too far on the turn, or was this "correct"

[Gomez22]

Party Poker 0.50/1 (8 handed)
Hero has 5c, 5d and is CO

UTG limps, Hero limps, SB limps, BB checks

Flop(4 SB): Kd, 8s, 4h

SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets, SB calls, BB calls, UTG folds

Turn(3.5 BB): 8c

SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets, SB folds, BB folds

Should I have raised PF here, to get it heads up against UTG? Also..... should I have bet the turn after 2 callers on my flop bet?

My thinking was that on the flop, only a king would call, but when the turn came, I decided to try and bluff it out. Luckily, it worked, but I kinda think I shoulda checked the turn. Am I right?

[Mike Gallo]

I think you played the hand fine.

[Brian]

Hi Gomez,

Theres almost no way you are up against a King here. I don't know many players who check top pair in an unraised, multiway pot. So I would have also bet the Flop when checked to. With 2 callers, I wouldn't have felt great about my hand, but the Turn card is fairly good for you. I would have bet again, and checked through on the River if anyone were left.

Raising pre-Flop would not have been a good move, because there is almost no way you'll get it heads up, and even if you do, you haven't put yourself in a great situation.

Also, you should not be thinking of the Turn as a bluff in that situation, because a better hand than yours will never fold. It is a value bet.

-Brian

[tj00]

First I fold pre-flop here. One limper and the blinds will not make this hand profitable, but if you do play you should raise. I would check it through on the turn after I got 2 callers.

[Gomez22]

First off, thanks for replying, guys.

Brian says to play the way I played, basically, and that I'm assuming he's saying I played it well, but used some wrong terminology.

tj states that I shouldn't be playing the hand here because of the lack of limpers to make the hand profitable, and I should raise PF if I DO play it, then to check the turn.

What is the difference in the two replies? I can see aggressiveness to both posts, adn I can see weakness to both replies. Not trying to start anything here, just trying to figure out why the 2 are different, but at the same time are similar.

If I'm an idiot for asking this, just let me know. Just trying to learn something about reading replies and how to interpret them from my own playing standpoint.

[Homer]

Should I have raised PF here, to get it heads up against UTG?

Possibly. This is one of those awkward situations in which calling, folding or raising could all be correct. I would raise if I could get it heads-up against UTG and he would be willing to fold to a flop bet a good percentage of the time. I would limp if I was certain that the button would limp behind me and that the blinds could complete/check. I would fold if neither limping nor raising seemed correct.

Also..... should I have bet the turn after 2 callers on my flop bet?

It depends on who your opponents are, but generally speaking, yes, you should bet again on the turn. You most likely have the best hand.

My thinking was that on the flop, only a king would call, but when the turn came, I decided to try and bluff it out.

People will call with all kinds of hands on the flop, including a K, an 8, a 4, pocket pairs, high cards, etc.

Also, you are not betting the turn as a bluff. The only hands better than yours that might fold here are 66 and 77. You are betting because you probably have the best hand. If you don't have the best hand, you'll most likely find out soon enough, as an 8 will checkraise you. If you are only called on the turn, you are almost definitely best against all but the weakest opponents, as you would have heard from a K on the flop. Maybe someone has 99 or TT, but probably not.

Luckily, it worked, but I kinda think I shoulda checked the turn. Am I right?

No. Another way to look at it is that if you check you will certainly call a bet on the river, but if you bet, the river will be checked to you and you can check it through. So, either way you're putting one more bet into the pot. Better to do it on the turn to charge opponents who are behind. You don't want to give free cards to random big card hands that have 6 outs against you. Make them pay to play or fold.

-- Homer

[Gomez22]

Thanks Homer......

If check-raised on the turn, fold, I got that part. Every time I think I start to understand one concept or part of a concept in hold em, about 10 more pop up that make me feel like my head is spinning.

/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

What a game!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Brian]

Sorry all, I misread this post. I thought that the Hero was UTG+1. You should fold this pre-Flop.

-Brian

[tj00]

I find when posters disagree about a decision it usually means the decision is close. On the close ones it becomes more a matter of style than technique. After reading homer's reply I like betting the turn now. Does this make me a flip-flopper? If Homer disagrees with what I say, listen to Homer.

[Gomez22]

I think everyone has a point, and being new to the game, sometimes I try to figure out what fits best to my style, therefore, since both posts were close, but different in a way, I wondered in what way could I take something from each of them that would fit my style. Also, I find that sometimes I play weaker than normal for me and other times I play alot more aggressive and stronger. This is something else that bothers me. Maybe I'll post something on that. Thanks for the reply tj... always appreciated.

[Brian]

Hi TJ,

I said the same thing that Homer did in my post... Don't I get a special pat on the back?

-Brian

[Gomez22]

If this were football, would you want a pat on the butt?

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[tj00]

Did not mean to leave you out Brian. I should of just said if just about anyone on here disagrees with me listen to them. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[GuyOnTilt]

Preflop: I would fold this hand here, unless: 1) the blinds were tight and I should get headsup most of the time, AND 2) the UTG limp played weak-tight postflop, i.e. check-fold all but top or 2nd pair and bet the others, or something like that. You get the idea. Anyways, I'd make folding my default play here, but raise if I thought both of those two conditions were met.

Postflop: I think you played it perfectly.

[Louie Landale]

No, I don't think raising PF is very good, neither is calling. Unless you have great control over the table. Or unless you are very confident in your ability to steal again on the turn when you get a great card.

Good turn cards are 5, 8, an K in that order. You got an 8[] that's one less bad card they can have [] Nobody made or picked up a draw [] pair of 4s doesn't think he's getting the right odds to call [] pair of Ts thinks the aggressive CO just outdrew him.

No brainer turn bet.

I would like to point out that you were not really bluffing.

- Louie