what's better/worse/the difference?

[NYplayer]

In a typical 10-20 or 20-40 game, what do you do UTG with KQo and ATo. I typically raise with KQo and fold ATo. Is one better than the other, worse, is there a difference?

[Coilean]

UTG, I about 50/50 raise/limp with KQ (the tighter the table/blinds, the more likely I am to raise) and 80/10/10 fold/limp/raise with AT (if I play, it's because a bad player is in the blinds). The hands are pretty close in value, but KQ is better against a crowd because it always makes top pair if no A is on board; heads up I would rather have the AT.

[mikelow]

Would you raise with A10off if the game was four or five handed? I would because having the ace is more valuable shorthanded.

[Coilean]

I would definitely raise both hands UTG 6-handed, and maybe even 7-handed. The blinds would eat you alive for sure if you folded these hands in a 4-5 handed game, and the chance to win the blinds uncontested or at least get it heads up should make raising better than calling.

[Tommy Angelo]

"In a typical 10-20 or 20-40 game, what do you do UTG with KQo and ATo."

KQ: fold 95% / raise 5% / call 0%.

AT: fold 85% / raise 15% / call 0%.

I prefer AT over KQ from all seats, limit and no-limit.

[stripsqueez]

A10o came up in the short handed forum a while ago - if i could find the thread for you i would

someone did some maths that roughly suggested that raising UTG 6 handed was bad but 5 handed was good which was close to the general consensus

the reality is that the blinds won't eat you up if you fold it, because if you have chosen one of the good online games there is plenty of action - i fold A10o UTG 5 handed about half the time - that seems to work for me

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[ML4L]

Hey Tommy,

I was under the impression that KQo is almost universally regarded as a stronger hand than ATo. The way that I see it, KQo is likely to dominate other hands, while if ATo is in a pot, it is probably the hand that it dominated... Additionally, KQo is more likely to make top pair than ATo. Also, KQo also makes straights more easily than does ATo. I know that these advantages are somewhat offset by the fact that having an ace is handier for catching bluffs, makes the nut flush, etc., but I still see KQo as being the stronger hand.

But, given the degree to which I respect your opinion, I figure that there must be a good reason for your preference. Is it because there are more "any-ace" players in Cali? I'd love to hear your reasoning.

Regarding the original question:

KQo: fold 65%, call 25%, raise 10%
ATo: fold 98%, call 0%, raise 2%

ML4L

[Tommy Angelo]

Hey ML4L,

"I was under the impression that KQo is almost universally regarded as a stronger hand than ATo."

I wonder, let's play poker taxonomist and say you must lump all starting hands into three groups, defined in any way you wish. Here's my three:

1) pairs
2) ace-any
3) other

The difference I see between KQ and AT is barely different than between KQ and A2. Like if it goes fold fold fold on around to my cutoff or button and I raise. I'd rather have A2 than KQ. Yeah I know that KQ has some fine features. There's just something about having the top card already.


Tommy

[nykenny]

Tommy,

I disagree. Well I only speak for myself, because i think ATo and KQo both present different difficulties down the streets for different people in different kind of games within the limits we are talking about here.

Personally, In most of the 10-20 or 20-40 games, I'd limp with ATo or KQo in a small percentage of time, and fold the rest, UTG. I prefer ATo after no one raises behind me, and KQo after i am raised.

Rarely, when the game is tough, i'd go with raise or fold while favoring fold.

Kenny

[nykenny]

ML4L,

while I almost 100% agree with your post, i just want to know how you keep urself in check to play 2% of ATo in UTG? /images/graemlins/blush.gif, since you only get ATo once a hour or less, and that being UTG maybe every 10 times you get ATo, which means you will get this situation every 2 days or so and supposed you play 5 days a week, you should get 100 ATo UTG in 40 weeks, which is close to 9 months. how must you make sure you only play one ATo UTG (open raise) per month? /images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

i just thought it was a fun question to ask, and my estimates on the frequency might not be accurate to the last bit... hehehe

Kenny

[Tommy Angelo]

"i just thought it was a fun question to ask,"

Me too.

By the same tokin' ...

If you asked me how often I cap it from the small blind with 22, I'd say, oh, about twice per sunspot cycle. But I couldn't say that I apply effort toward keeping that frequency just so.

When all answers seem questionable, the answer is to examine the question.


Tommy