30+3 SnG limit, 100 played, here are the Results:

[HavanaBanana]

1st 19
2nd 12
3rd 7
4th 11
5th 16
6th 9
7th 10
8th 5
9th 10
10th 1


3300$ spent , 4350 won for a net win 0f 1050$ or 10.50 per tourney.

I didnt start on a win of course, just decided to record 100 tournies, kind of expected 15$ per tourney, but was playing more than one table more often than not, and that makes the EV suffer.

I kinda like having this statistic, so I can compete with myself in the future and try to do better, one tourney got cancelled 5 players left, so i just left that one out of it.

Feel free to play 100 games and beat my statistics /images/graemlins/smile.gif gl

[GuyOnTilt]

I only record my top 5 finishes, but after EXACTLY 100 50+5 NL SnG's on Party my stats are:

1st: 21
2nd: 14
3rd: 16
4th: 26 (doh!)
5th: 13

Total net: $3450
$/SnG: $34.50
Hours played: 74.50 hrs.
$/hr: $46.31

I quit my SnG experiment after I hit the 100 mark. It became very monotonous and had a very quick burnout on me. I'll probably do another 100 when I need of a break from limit ring games though.

[rusty JEDI]

Guyontilt only has 10 finishes 6th or worse and Havana has 34 6th or worse. Knowing that havana is a good player do we chalk this large difference up to the different strategies they use early or the fact that its Limit for havana and NL for guyontilt.

[GuyOnTilt]

I think the NL vs. Limit factor is huge. I only play premium hands in good position for the first 3 rounds of play. Hands like AQo or 77 hit the muck from EP. After 15 minutes, there's usually only 4-6 people left. At the NL SnG's, the fish are calling all-in's early on with any pair or any draw, so it's rather easy to make the top 5.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
4th: 26 (doh!)

[/ QUOTE ]

Guy, Have you read TounPokerFAP? You should read the 'Just out of the Money'and the 'Last Two Tables' chapters.

Nice stats though.

Peace,
JT

[GuyOnTilt]

I have not read that, no. In fact, I haven't ever heard of it. I noticed my propensity toward busting out on the bubble, but never took too much effort into finding and fixing my leaks. I'm not a big tourney player; I was just doing it for a change of pace. But I think Party's SnG's could be very profitble, and for the 3 weeks I played them full-time I did quite well. I just have a hard time playing long sessions of them, whereas I can play 10 hours of non-stop limit ring games with no problem. I'm just not cut out for tourney's I guess. If I ever do decide to take it seriously, I'll have to hit you up for info on that book though.

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not a big tourney player; I was just doing it for a change of pace. But I think Party's SnG's could be very profitble, and for the 3 weeks I played them full-time I did quite well. I just have a hard time playing long sessions of them, whereas I can play 10 hours of non-stop limit ring games with no problem. I'm just not cut out for tourney's I guess

[/ QUOTE ]

We must be cut from the same mold because there is a post of mine about 3 months ago that say the same thing, although, I think I put 20 hours, not 10. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

My bubble propensity is why I got the book, and it is a change of pace: Here it is, check it out. (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3562339618&category=22 39)

Use this to get it all cheap while you sleep: Tell them JoeTall sent ya. Trust me this works, ask CrackerZack (http://www.auctionsniper.com)

Peace,
JT

[GuyOnTilt]

Ohhhh! TPFAP! Yes, I have read that book. In fact, I won it. For some reason my mind didn't register when you wrote "TournPokerFAP." This just makes it official I guess: I got way too little sleep last night. Nice auction site though...I'll use it! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Joe Tall]

www.auctionsniper.com (http://www.auctionsniper.com) Kicks A$$! I've saved so much money and love to beat out other eBayers with 4 seconds left while I'm sleeping! It's the best and it only costs 25 cents usually to snipe! Enjoy!

Peace,
Joe Tall

[GuyOnTilt]

www.auctionsniper.com (http://www.auctionsniper.com) Kicks A$$! I've saved so much money and love to beat out other eBayers with 4 seconds left while I'm sleeping! It's the best and it only costs 25 cents usually to snipe! Enjoy!

Peace,
Joe Tall

I must say I'm surprised to see this after..


I didn't even read all of GCs post, actully not one. I didn't even see the True guy there. I don't read the promotion posts, just regular 2+2 who add poker content.

And..

Please don't, spammer.

...and,

See, Salesman make my blood boil.

I'm not saying I mind or anything. I couldn't care less as long as it stays off the SS forum, but I just found it funny. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[Gotmilk]

One explanation was the NL vs Limit factor made it easier to finish in the top 5 as opposed to the bottom 5. In my opinion, it should be the other way around. Since there are so many fish in the NL that will call big bets with worse hands, this should produce more first place wins for the better player, but also create more early bustouts to bad beats. Conversely, playing tight in the Limit tournaments for the first 3 rounds should have 3 people bust out before you even get involved. For this reason, I don't know if I buy guyontilts statistics. I am a fairly good sit and go player in my own humble opinion, but I wouldn't even begin to venture I'm anywhere close to only finishing out of the top 5 10% of the time in NL tournies.

I'll track 100 $50 no limit sit and go's and keep you guys updated. (Last time I kept records was for $33 and I was up $120 or something after 60 before I got bored).

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not saying I mind or anything. I couldn't care less as long as it stays off the SS forum, but I just found it funny.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I wrote it, I was totally thinking of someone saying this beacue it is funny. But, as a friend I'm suggesting the sniper, it's a valuable asset that is something of a hidden secret.

All I gain from getting you to sign up is 3 free snipes which will be the equivalent of $0.75, so since CrackerZack signed up and if you do, I'll have a BUCK FIFTY! I thank you both for buying me a cup of coffee!!! Thanks!

Peace,
JT

[GuyOnTilt]

One explanation was the NL vs Limit factor made it easier to finish in the top 5 as opposed to the bottom 5. In my opinion, it should be the other way around. Since there are so many fish in the NL that will call big bets with worse hands, this should produce more first place wins for the better player, but also create more early bustouts to bad beats.

Because Party's SnG's are so full of fish, even at the 50+5 level, I am very unwilling to risk a substantial amount of my stack early on. This is why I rarely see more than one flop in the first 3 orbits. While what you say is true for players who get involved in a decent amount of pots, it is not true for a tight player. I don't get knocked out early by bad beats very often because I don't allow myself to get knocked out early by bad beats very often.

For this reason, I don't know if I buy guyontilts statistics.

Fair enough.

I am a fairly good sit and go player in my own humble opinion, but I wouldn't even begin to venture I'm anywhere close to only finishing out of the top 5 10% of the time in NL tournies.

Most players probably aren't. That doesn't mean it's not possible, especially in NL where I've made the money several times without ever seeing a flop outside of my BB.

I'll track 100 $50 no limit sit and go's and keep you guys updated. (Last time I kept records was for $33 and I was up $120 or something after 60 before I got bored).

Not saying this to sound cocky or anything, but you will not approach my stats. A 6% RoI is not very good, especially at Party, where the fish are plentiful.

[GuyOnTilt]

I was just messin' with ya, Joe. /images/graemlins/smile.gif You're okay by me!

I will probably be signing up for the service shortly. Thanks for the tip!

[Gotmilk]

I might have jumped the gun a little bit (I instantly felt like a jerk for making that claim), but still 10% seems pretty low to me. But hey who cares :-). I try to sit out the first 3 rounds for the most part also, but I've also had big hands beaten in the first 3 rounds fairly often as well. I don't mind taking a cheap flop with a pair to try to flop a set, and, in the Sit and Go's, if someone can beat my QQ I'm just gonna be out of the tournament early. Maybe this is wrong, maybe I should just be sitting there waiting for half to bust out even passing some good hands...I think it will probably come close to evening out though I'll double and triple up in the first 3 rounds sometime which is close to automatic money in those, and youll live to be 1 in 5 and double through the idiots which also is pretty common :-)

My return has also been been better than 6% (I used to get 36% on Paradise, but I don't play there anymore and I havent gotten PokerTracker working for Party yet so my only stat comes from that sample of 60), I wouldn't claim the 6% in that example is a good ROI, I was actually poking fun at myself by including that in there. What I really love are these winner takes all satellites. You should try them. I've played five of the $32+$3 and won 3 :-) (So obviously from this sample they have an EV of $179)

[C M Burns]

where did u play these? I'd be very impressed/amazed if it was party given the structure there.

[Michael Davis]

FWIW, I only play $10 tourneys, but have very similar statistics to Guyontilt over a longer period, usually playing three at once. No Limit SNGs are easily beatable, at least at my level. Limit, I'm not so sure, and I don't care to find out.

-Mike

[Michael Davis]

This is definitely due to the difference between limit and no limit. Playing no limit, you just aren't one of the first five out unless you get aces or kings cracked, or run into aces with kings.

-Mike

[HavanaBanana]

Yes it was at Party

[zooey]

Just adding my .02, on measurement error, like I often do /images/graemlins/smile.gif

My SD for SnG is around 2.6 buy ins, so 1SD fo 100 tournies is:

2.6*100^.5 = 26 buy ins, or .26 per tourny.

So after 100 $33 tournies you shouldn't be surprised if your results were off by $8 or so. After 400 tournies, you results are usuually within 10% of a buyin or so, and you can get a better idea of where you are.

Here are my #'s:

98 @ $33 +960 (.3 ROI)
265 @ $55 +3375 (.25)
174 @ $109 +1606 (.08)
55 @ $215 (So rediculously lucky, I'm not going to tell)

One thing I can deduce from my $215 results, the games aren't being regularly cheated by knowledgable players, as claimed by Russ G on RGP.

Best,

Zooey

[eMarkM]

I have my SNG results in a spreadsheet. I didn't have this "by place" breakdown in it before. I did this calculation for my last 150 $50+5 NLHE SNGs on Party and I'm glad I did. I knew I wasn't winning my share of firsts, but I didn't realize it was this big a discrenpency until I did the "by place" breakdown.
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
1 12
2 30
3 26
4 16
5 26
6 17
7 15
8 1
9 2
10 5
</pre><hr />

Won $10,100
Paid $8250
Net $1850.
$12.33 per SNG.
ROI = 22.4%

Not too bad. I'm very good at getting 2nd and 3rd. But I'm obviously getting killed when it gets HU. Part of this is no doubt due to the strategy I employ of playing ubertight until 5 are left or 100/50 blinds. I virtually never bust out in the first two rounds as I nearly post and fold in those rounds all but the best. So I survive, but I'm almost never the chip leader when it gets down to 4, so it's usually good enough to finish 2nd and 3rd, the positions I most often finish at. By the time I'm in 2nd, I'm often at a 2-1 chip disadvantage just as it gets to coin flip level blinds. If I can win 5 more times HU than I do, i.e., get 1st 17 times v 2nd 25, I'd bump my ROI to 28%, which I'd be very happy with.

I'll mark in my spreadsheet where I started playing the SNGs with the new T1000 starting chips. We'll see how this affects my 1st place results. The fact that the final stage will be that much less of a crapshoot should help. But I think it will be offset by a few more sub-5 finishes as more chips does have an effect on how many survive to the critical 100/50 blind level when real play begins.

[allenciox]

My results are actually quite similar to yours, Emark:

From Pokertracker, 131 $50+5 tourneys at Party:

1 - 19
2 - 17
3 - 18
4 - 14
5 - 13
6 - 14
7 - 15
8 - 7
9 - 10
10 - 4

ROI = 26%. A chi-square test confirms that there is less than a 1% chance that I would be placing this well if I were an average player.


One thing I notice is that my largest three numbers are 1st, 3rd, 2nd., but there is no significant differences between the top seven places by a chi-square test. My ROI comes from finishing about 85% of the time in the top seven.

The post earlier that had only 10% in bottom 5 is pretty amazing. In quite a few of my tourneys, there are still 7 players around when blinds are 50/100. I rarely go out before then, but if shortstacked, I'll make a stand there.