A debatable Flop raise

[Brian]

Party 5/10. LMP in this hand is a pretty aggressive player, but not overly aggressive, and not usually with bad hands. LP in this hand is loose and terrible.

Dealt J /images/graemlins/heart.gif J /images/graemlins/club.gif in the cutoff. Folded to LMP who raises, LP cold calls, I raise, button and SB fold, BB and rest call. 4 to the Flop for 12sb.

Flop: Q /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB checks, LMP bets, LP calls, and I raise, and this is why. I decided that my options were to either call or raise; I can't fold when I may be ahead and have 6 outs if I am behind. So I decided that raising was the better than calling in order to clear up my set outs and to get a free card on the Turn. BB folds and the other two call. 3 to the Turn for 18sb.

Turn: 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

Both check to me, and, feeling I may have the best hand, I bet. Only LMP calls. 2 to the River for 11bb.

River: 5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

LMP checks and I check behind. Results later.

-Brian

[Nottom]

Seems fine to me. How do you play this hand if the 8 wasn't there for the gutshot draw?

[MaxPower]

I think calling the flop is better. If the player is aggresive you will often get re-raised and bet into again on the turn. The free card play only works against the passive guys. It worked here, but now you are obliged to bet the turn because you have the best hand and don't want to give a free card. Which is it? I don't like a free card raise unless I intend to take a free card.

On the other hand, they way you played it, I'm pretty sure he has AK or some other hand that you can beat.

[Nottom]

Most players aren't aggressive and are happy to shut down and call when raised. Our hero's hand really wants to get to showdown as cheaply as possible and this is the way to get there.

[Brian]

Hi Max,

I said he was aggressive, but not overly so. And not with trash hands. In other words, if he re-raises me, then he has a Queen. This will let me know where I stand better on the Turn and River, and will prevent me from having to make a crying call on the River if I don't improve.

You're right, I said it was for a free card, but then I didn't take it when it came. I guess it wasn't really for a free card then, was it? When I raised, I was half expecting to be re-raised by the LMP player. When he didn't, and then he checked on the Turn, I felt that I had to bet it.

I think you have to raise this Flop to help define your hand. I don't like just calling down. I'd like to see what the others think, because like I said, it is debatable /images/graemlins/smile.gif

-Brian

[Aces McGee]

You made the free card play, but then decided not to take the free card.

What about the turn play made you think you were ahead?

Aces McGee

[Nottom]

This was a "free showdown" play. I think you need to bet the turn if you are there.

[MaxPower]

If he is the type to shut down after being raised, I like the play more. But if he is that type of player, will he bet the turn again if he can't beat Jacks?

I assumed you meant a really aggressive player, in which case I wouldn't try it. I've played in the Party 5/10 games a lot recently and there are many players who will 3-bet you.

Nice hand. He had AK right?

[Brian]

He has K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif and takes it. My Flop raise saved me a small bet, assuming he would have continued betting on the Turn and River had I called instead of raised.

-Brian