Three hands from today

[Homer]

<font color="blue">Hand 1</font>

I'm dealt A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif on the button. Somewhat LAG (not confident in this read) UTG raises, CO coldcalls, I coldcall, blinds call.

Flop - K /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Checked to me, I bet, SB and BB call (no reads on these players).

Turn - 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I bet, both call.

River - 2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I bet, SB calls.

I beat QJo.

Issues

1) Preflop coldcall vs. three-bet - I coldcalled because I wasn't confident in my read of UTG. I felt there was a decent chance that I was dominated, but not good enough that I shouldn't see the flop. How does the coldcaller swing my decision? Should I be more or less likely to three-bet?

2) River bet - I think this was a routine value bet. I wouldn't have agreed with myself a few months ago.


<font color="blue">Hand 2</font>

I open-raise K /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif from MP, LAG and possibly maniac three-bets from the BB, I call.

Flop - A /images/graemlins/spade.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

BB bets, I call.

Turn - 5 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB bets, I call.

River - 8 /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB bets, I call.

I beat 66.

Issues

1) Raising postflop - Since I'm heads-up with position against a LAG/maniac, I decided that I was definitely going to showdown with middle pair, top kicker. The question was whether I should have raised at some point. I decided not to for a couple of reasons, including:

- BB could be drawing very slim against me, and might fold if I raise, whereas if I just call he will bluff at it all the way to river

- My hand, if best, is fairly likely not to be drawn out on, so there is no need to raise to protect it

- If I raise at any point, I will be forced to call a three-bet


<font color="blue">Hand 3</font> - My first and last river bluff three-bet

I open-raise UTG with black TT, for the most part tight-aggressive (with a propensity to CC too often, though) UTG+1 calls, blinds fold.

From watching UTG+1, it was my belief that he would only coldcall with medium pocket pairs, and would either reraise or fold with big Aces.

Flop - 7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif A /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I bet, UTG+1 calls. At this point I'm pretty sure I'm value betting against a smaller PP.

Turn - 7 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I bet, UTG+1 calls.

River - A /images/graemlins/spade.gif

I bet, UTG+1 raises, I scratch my head and decide he's trying to get me to lay down my big PP, so I three-bet. He caps and I fold.

Issues

1) Slowing down before the river - I don't think there's any point before the river where I can slow down.

2) Bet or check the river - I'm not sure, maybe I should have check-called here. If he has 33-66, he'll fold to my bet, but may bluff at it if I check. If he has 88-99, he'll call my river bet or fold. I didn't think he was the type to bluff bet the river after I had been betting the whole way, so I think betting was best.

3) Reaction to river raise - I really couldn't believe that he had an Ace here. I was sure he wasn't coldcalling preflop with a big Ace, and I was sure that if he was he would have raised me on the flop. In retrospect, it's perfectly reasonable for him to call me down postflop, heads-up with position, as he's either way ahead or way behind. At the time, I suspected that he might be bluffing, so I three-bet. This was dumb for the reasons I already mentioned and because I'm essentially risking two bets to win eight, so he has to be bluffing 20% of the time or more for my three-bet to the worthwhile. Also, if he was bluffing, I should have just called, as there's a slim-to-none chance that he's doing so with JJ-KK. The more I think about this, the more I'm laughing at myself. FPS.

That's enough for now I guess.

-- Homer

[JTG51]

Hand 1:

Post flop I think your play is pretty routine. One thing about the preflop play though, and it's probably not important because 99.8% of Party players either don't know you well enough or don't pay enough attention to notice, but I'd put you on exactly AQs before the flop. I guess it could also be 99, but how many other hands would you cold call with there? A minor point, but maybe something to think about.

Hand 2:

I think that's a reasonable way to play the hand. I want to say something bad since call, call, call never sounds good, but the more I think about it, the more I think this is a rare spot where calling down is the best choice.

Hand 3:

I should have just called, as there's a slim-to-none chance that he's doing so with JJ-KK.

Right. Also, how often is he going to fold one of those hands to a river 3-bet? You are risking 2 BBs to win 8 if I counted correctly. Would he fold 1 time in 4? Finally, how often do tight aggressive opponents, even those that cold call too much, cold call with KK or QQ?

[Homer]

I agree with your comments, as usual. One question: In hand 3, would you ever call the river raise? He has to be bluffing more than 11% of the time to make calling correct.

-- Homer

[JTG51]

Against an unknown, no. Against the player you described, with the read you gave, sometimes.

Keep in mind that calling is correct even if he'll bluff somewhat less than 11% of the time. You don't want your opponents to see you making these river folds too often or they will force you to make a lot more tough decisions. That probably doesn't apply on a low limit Party game, but it certainly does in a tougher game.

[anatta]

Hand 1: I would just cold-call here most of the time. You can't get it heads up, so I would be thinking of letting the blinds in since my hand plays well multi-way. Good bet on the end.


Hand 2: Even against a borderline maniac, I would probably call him down. He three bet you, you have a good second pair that is invulnerable to overcards, you have position so I would let him bet the hand for me. Raising the turn for the showdown is problematic since he could three-bet you with very little. I would be hesitant to go to war on the flop since he could three bet you with a better hand, and he might fold a hand that is drawing very slim. Some might raise the river here (or say they would!)


Hand 3: I like that you have such a detailed book on this guy. How someone plays pocket pairs vs. big aces both before and after the flop is key. But you can't be right all the time! This doesn't really apply here, but one problem I have is that on the turn I am often deciding whether I will make a thin value bet on the river, forgetting about inducing a bluff vs. a draw. I agree that your river play was bad for the reasons you say.

[Ulysses]

<font color="blue">Hand 1</font>

AQ suited. Button. Potential LAG UTG raiser. 3-bet. 3-bet. 3-bet. Having the button rules.

Post-flop, straightforward. With this hand, I'm not sure how much influence the cold-caller has wrt 3-betting or not. I do know that he definitely takes folding out of the question for me.

<font color="blue">Hand 2</font>

Possible maniac? Well played. No reason to raise post-flop for the reasons you stated.

<font color="blue">Hand 3</font> -

My first and last river bluff three-bet

I like it already. The river bluff three-bet part, not the last part.

[ QUOTE ]
I scratch my head and decide he's trying to get me to lay down my big PP, so I three-bet. He caps and I fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

With your hand, this 3-bet only makes sense if he has exactly 88 or 99 and will call w/ them or has JJ/QQ/KK and will lay them down. He would have 3-bet w/ JJ/QQ/KK, though, right? And even if he cold-called w/ JJ, will he lay it down to a 3-bet? If he's bluffing w/ something like 66 or QJs, just call - all he can do if you 3-bet is fold or bluff 4-bet.

[ QUOTE ]
1) Slowing down before the river - I don't think there's any point before the river where I can slow down.

[/ QUOTE ]

You bet, he called. Nobody's going very fast.

[ QUOTE ]
2) Bet or check the river

[/ QUOTE ]

Close. I'd probably lean towards check-calling here.

[ QUOTE ]
I really couldn't believe that he had an Ace here.

[/ QUOTE ]

You said he cold-calls too much. I do that too. Suited Aces are one of the hands I do it with.

[ QUOTE ]
This was dumb for the reasons I already mentioned and because I'm essentially risking two bets to win eight, so he has to be bluffing 20% of the time or more for my three-bet to the worthwhile.

[/ QUOTE ]

No. Your hand has showdown value and beats most anything he's bluffing with here. 3-betting would make more sense w/ 33 than TT. The reason to 3-bet is to get him to throw away exactly JJ/QQ/KK, hands he's unlikely to have based on the pre-flop cold-call. Also, I'm not sure that he mucks them enough times for one last bet here. Sounds like you already figured that out, though.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 1:

I'd put you on exactly AQs before the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

You guys are either playing too inflexibly or hand-reading too narrowly. Or both.

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2:

I think that's a reasonable way to play the hand. I want to say something bad since call, call, call never sounds good

[/ QUOTE ]

I do that quite a bit against overaggressive players.

[rkiray]

Haven't read any of the responses yet, so this may be redundant.

Hand 1 :

Preflop I'd either 3 bet or fold. If I knew UTG was a LAP (LAG = Loose Aggresive Game, at least according to Dr. Al) I'd 3 bet. If I wasn't confident in my read I'd fold. I think this is the type of hand where you will generally end up losing bigger pots than you win (true of all dominated hands). I'd bet the river.

Hand 2 : I usually limp with KQo (raise with KQs) unless the game is very tight. Postflop I like it.

Hand 3 : I like it. I agree you couldn't slow down until the river. I'd check call the river, but if nothing else you added varity to your play. Gave your more observant opponents something to think about (and hopefully write in their notes).

[Homer]

Hand 2 : I usually limp with KQo (raise with KQs) unless the game is very tight.

Even from MP when no one has entered the pot yet?

Thanks for the other comments as well.

-- Homer

[rkiray]

Yep. In the S&amp;M hand review I did in March the two hands that S&amp;M commented the most on were KQo and AJo. They kept saying over and over again to usually limp unless the game was tight. This applied to every positon except late position, where of course you would open raise.

[Homer]

Wow, I'm surprised. I can't be the only one, can I?

-- Homer

[JTG51]

You guys are either playing too inflexibly or hand-reading too narrowly. Or both.

I'm refering to a very specific situation. An early position raiser, maybe one cold caller, and Homer cold calls. I think he'll do that with a very, very narrow range of hands.

[JTG51]

No, you aren't the only one.

I always open raise KQo from MP, and it would take a lot of convincing for me to believe limping was better.

[J.R.]

[Nottom]

Hand 1: I'm more likely to coldcall here than 3-bet since you don't mind the blinds coming along too much, if it was AQo and you decided to play I would prefer to 3-bet and try and eliminate them. Flop onward seems pretty routine, I need to pull the trigger on this river bet more often myself.

Hand 2: I like your play here as well. Against a lag I think just getting in 1 bet a round seems like a solid play. Ax is certainly in the 3-betting realm for many LAGs, so there is a reasonable chance you are behind, but you are often ahead as well. Raising often won't get you much information and may just get you 3-bet against a more maniacal-type even if he has a worse hand.

Hand 3: I don't like the bluff. Your hand is worth showing down based on your read so I don't see the value in bluffing. If he is trying to bluff you off a big pair, he's often going to fold to your 3-bet so you will only get called by a better hand (a 7) and will get capped by an A. I think you may have been right about him having a small PP, unfortunately I think it was 77.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2 : I usually limp with KQo (raise with KQs) unless the game is very tight. Postflop I like it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually do just the opposite.

[Nottom]

I haven't read the preflop section of HEFAP recently, but open limping with KQo in MP just seems dirty.