When you don’t get rivered

[pufferfish]

10 handed micro-limit, typical texture.

I got rivered several times in this session. Perhaps because of that this hand struck a chord. I think my opponent played his hand fairly well.

I’m on the button with J’s.

UTG+2 open-limps, LMP calls and I raise. SB, UTG+2 and LMP call. Four see the flop for 8 sb.

FLOP: [ 8 4 2 ] – rainbow.

SB bets, folded to me and I call. Two see the turn for 5 bb.

TURN: [ 8 4 2 ] [ Q ] – rainbow complete.

SB bets, I raise and SB calls. Two see the river for 9 bb.

RIVER: [ 8 4 2 Q ] [ 3 ]

SB checks, I bet and SB calls.

RESULTS
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SB had A2o.

TC,
pf

[lil']

I think your opponent played terribly.

[Festus22]

Your opponent played this well?

Called a raise out of the SB with A-2o.

Flop bet - maybe.

Called a turn raise (made by the PF raiser) with possibly a dead overcard and bottom pair and no draw?

And paid off the river?

I hate to see what he'd have to do to play poorly.

[GuyOnTilt]

I think my opponent played his hand fairly well.

Huh? Usually remarks like this, whose sarcasm isn't obvious, should be accompanied by a smiley face of some sort or another. When it's not it makes me wonder if you just forgot, or if you're actually that bad... /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[pufferfish]

But, I’m not one to write off an entire hand because of an early mistake.

My pre-flop raises had been getting looser and looser because they kept folding to me. Heck, I had it folded around to the BB on a UTG limp, more than once. Maybe I should have mentioned that, I just didn’t think about it. Oh yea, I was also bluffing a lot.

I think he did well on the flop with his 5+ outer. He had the odds to call but he bet instead. He did manage to get it HU and I just called.

So, on the turn he bets into the pre-flop raiser again. The same pre-flop raiser that just called on the flop. The same pre-flop raiser that could be chasing overcards, the same pre-flop raiser that might fold. Pretty gutsy if you ask me.

So I raise his turn bet and he calls. Maybe he should have folded. Maybe that Queen helped me, maybe I didn’t need the help, maybe I’m semi-bluffing. Hard to tell, hard to tell.

The river brings no relief. If I was drawing, the only card on that board I should like is the Queen. So he checks to me and makes a crying call in a 10 bb pot.

I did say fairly well, and yes GOT maybe I am that bad. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

TC,
pf

[GuyOnTilt]

...and yes GOT maybe I am that bad

It was all in jest my friend, all in jest.

As for your opponent's play, if you had been frequently bluff betting/raising and blind-stealing then I guess maybe it's reasonable to call the turn raise. Once he does, he's obviously committed to calling you down on the river.

[Sarge85]

I'm not sure why you think your opponent played it good?

He should have mucked PF, and the flop, and the turn, and the river.

Sarge /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[pufferfish]

I should have said something about the table texture. This session was at UB which can play similar to Paradise in being loose/weak or a loose/weak-passive mix. I didn’t get many big pots off this table, although others were.

It took me a long time to tighten up my starting standards. Unfortunately at tables like this and even more so at Paradise, I find it hard to keep opponents in a hand with me. So I’ve been trying different things to adjust.

I find these tables very enjoyable, probably because at heart I’m just a bluff-baby. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

TC,
pf

[pufferfish]

I'm not sure why you think your opponent played it good?

I didn’t say good, I said fairly well. I was making a lot of loose raises and bluffs.

He should have mucked PF, and the flop, and the turn, and the river.

Pre-flop – true.

On the flop he had odds for his 5+ outer.

Turn – am I bluffing or not?

River – you wouldn’t make a crying call in a 10 bb pot with that board and me as your opponent?

TC,
pf

[Sarge85]

I think your giving to much credit to your opponent for critical thinking...and I think you might be over analyzing your own plays. This was .50/1.00 -- semi-bluffs are non-existent. I gurantee that your opponenet wasn't trying to figure if you were putting a "move" on him. To me it looks like a bad player calling the worst pair all the way down to the river.

Don't get me wrong, if you were winning money, and not just pots, this way - more power to you.

You said you were bluffing alot - I *RELISH* that type of player at my table. - perhaps the reason this poor player "got HU" with you is because the rest are waiting for a hand to punish you with. (In my mind calling you down with a pair of 2's isn't it)

Different strokes for different folks I guess...good luck.

Sarge /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

[pufferfish]

I think your giving to much credit to your opponent for critical thinking...and I think you might be over analyzing your own plays.

Maybe and probably.

This was .50/1.00 -- semi-bluffs are non-existent.

It was $.25/$.50 and not true. I won at least one hand on a semi-bluff with a flush draw.

I gurantee that your opponenet wasn't trying to figure if you were putting a "move" on him. To me it looks like a bad player calling the worst pair all the way down to the river.

Maybe, but I was showing some curios hands and had gotten caught in a bluff or two.

Don't get me wrong, if you were winning money, and not just pots, this way - more power to you.

I was up over 10 BB when I left to reply to this thread and well, get dinner.

You said you were bluffing alot - I *RELISH* that type of player at my table. - perhaps the reason this poor player "got HU" with you is because the rest are waiting for a hand to punish you with. (In my mind calling you down with a pair of 2's isn't it)

It was a pretty weak table; I just tried to take advantage. If he had folded to me on the turn or river he would have gotten a star by his name. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

TC,
pf

[Nottom]

I need to find a table where all my opponents play "fairly well" seems like a goldmine to me.

[pufferfish]

I need to find a table where all my opponents play "fairly well" seems like a goldmine to me.

The loose enough/weak-passive tables at Paradise and UB are a goldmine.

I guess you had to be there. If he had not called me down he would have been marked for a turn/river bluff in the near future.

It’s all relative to the table. I just came off a $1/$2 5-max table that re-defined poker, for me at least. Sheesh, crack, suckle (SO) and pop. There are no rushes say the sages, at least not until you look back. Oh yea, tell that to my 50 BB loss. I had to figure out semi-intelligent suckouts and bluffs just to keep from totally sinking. It was a costly blast. Hey, and I’m pretty good at 5-max. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Sometime you’re the windshield and sometimes you’re the bug. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

TC,
pf

[Peter]

I think I would raise the flop. Why didn't you? Because it got heads-up?

Peter

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess you had to be there. If he had not called me down he would have been marked for a turn/river bluff in the near future.

[/ QUOTE ]

No offense, but it really seems like you are trying too hard to bluff people who are basically unbluffable. I wonder how much unsuccessful bluff attempts contributed to your loss.

[pufferfish]

I think I would raise the flop. Why didn't you? Because it got heads-up?

Yes. I wanted to see if I could raise him on the turn, although it was a little surprising that he bet when the overcard came.

I wish I could have discussed the hand with him because I found it kind of interesting.

TC,
pf

[pufferfish]

No offense, but it really seems like you are trying too hard to bluff people who are basically unbluffable. I wonder how much unsuccessful bluff attempts contributed to your loss.

No offense taken. The loss came at a $1/$2 5-max nighttime table at Paradise. The hand I posted was from a $.25/$.50 10-handed daytime table at UB. I was up around 10 BB when I left the UB table.

As far as unsuccessful bluffs contributing to my loss at the Paradise table, well yea that was part of it. OTOH, 5-max requires some bluffing, at least I think so. I just requested my last 99 hands from that table. Maybe I can find something interesting to post.

TC,
pf

[Joe Tall]

I'd raise the flop here, your Jacks are vulnerable to over cards.

Other than that I think you played it fine and I'm not sure why you posted the hand, care to elaborate?

Peace,
JT

[Joe Tall]

[ QUOTE ]
I think my opponent played his hand fairly well.


[/ QUOTE ]

Opps, I totally missed this. On the flop his bottom pair bluff is interesting but as soon as he gets callers and raised on the turn, it's time to quit.

Peace,
JT

[pufferfish]

I'd raise the flop here, your Jacks are vulnerable to over cards.

Part of my adjustment to these weakish games has been to slow down a bit. I’m trying to get some money out of the BB streets.

Other than that I think you played it fine and I'm not sure why you posted the hand, care to elaborate?

I’d been reading some “bad beat” posts and thought I’d post a hand that didn’t get rivered as contrast or something. I made a horrible job of it.

Here is a point that may help never players who are getting frustrated. When a player sucks out on you watch them carefully for a while. Watch them fold on the river or show 8 high. Watch them miss bets when they have a good hand. Notice all the mistakes they make and how ultimately their stack will dwindle. After that maybe you won’t feel so bad when they catch a hand on you.

TC,
pf

[pufferfish]

Opps, I totally missed this. On the flop his bottom pair bluff is interesting but as soon as he gets callers and raised on the turn, it's time to quit.

He only got one caller, the goofy PFR. /images/graemlins/blush.gif

Ok, I give up – he played horrible. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

TC,
pf

[me454555]

I don't think this is a good hand to slowplay and trap BB for more bets. Your very vulnerable to overcards and I think this needs to be played aggressive on the earlier streets. This will also help reduce the amount of suckouts you see b/c other players will have the opportunity to fold.

[pufferfish]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think this is a good hand to slowplay and trap BB for more bets. Your very vulnerable to overcards and I think this needs to be played aggressive on the earlier streets. This will also help reduce the amount of suckouts you see b/c other players will have the opportunity to fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bear in mind that the hand was heads-up when the action got to me on the flop. This is the only street I didn’t bet or raise.

TC,
pf

[me454555]

I still don't feel comfortable calling. Your opponent could have big unsuited cards or a smaller pair. 3 overcards that can call, I'd be more worried about protecting my hand than trapping for more bets.

[Bob T.]

If he has any of those hands, he won't fold to a flop raise, so you won't protect your hand by raising the flop. He probably protected his hand the best way possible by raising the turn. I think Pufferfish played this one OK.