All in

[WyattErb]

I was playing a multi tourney yesterday, about 400 players, the game is no-limit holdem!
i havent been playing no-limit too much, so here is my problem: With what kind of hands do I call an all in, and with what hands do i go all in myself? stealing the blinds is out of question( we started with 1500 chips and the blinds and the blinds were very low)
I once called an all in with K /images/graemlins/club.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif in late position, and got my ass beaten by A3 off suit!!
another time i called an all in(from the same guy) with AQ offsuit(i am on the button and nobody else called so far) and lose against K10 offsuit!!!
was i just unlucky that day? or do i play it that wrong???
some advise is needed!!!

[SoCalPat]

You might not like to hear the following, but here goes:

Stay away from NL tournament games until you have a fundamental understanding of the basics of the game.

If you still find a need to donate your money, then make sure you're sitting in on my game /images/graemlins/cool.gif

The two hands you went all-in with are nowhere near hands you call all-in bets with. You deserve to lose on a regular basis if you're calling big bets with such dreck. In case you haven't noticed, an unimproved A3o is a winner vs. KQs.

The good news? Your opponents are equally as bad. Do some reading and studying on NL games (I've heard great things about Cloutier's Championship NL Hold 'Em book, but have done most of my reading through essays and the like on the Web) before you even set foot at another NL tournament, and if you're consistently playing against these types of opponents, you'll clean their clocks.

[WyattErb]

Well, i am usually doing quite well in limit cash games, but i am just starting with no-limit!
I guess my problem is folding a nice hand...but thanks for the advice!

[chesspain]

You might want to read Tournament Poker for the Advanced Player, by Sklansky. Among various topics, you'll learn about the "gap concept," which in a nutshell explains how you usually need a much better hand with which to call an all-in bet than to make such a bet yourself.

Indeed, depending on the circumstaces at the table, being the first into the pot and raising all-in with a hand like AQo or KQs may be fine--but calling all-in with such a hand is usually a mistake.

If you do not know why this is so, you should definately read the book /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

With what kind of hands do I call an all in, and with what hands do i go all in myself?

There is no simple answer. In a perfect world, you *never* want to go all-in. You want to build up your stack gradually and use your chip position to control the table without ever putting your entire stack at risk.

KQ, whether suited or not, is not a strong hand in NL. In a limit ring game KQs is a far stronger hand than A9o. The opposite is true in NL. Can you see why?

[miler]

just read Brunson who says that in a 9 hander there is an 80% probability that there will be an ace out there and 20% prob there will be a hand with aair or an ace.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

That's true, but KQs is still a better hand in a limit ring game than A9o. The probability of an A or a pair being out there is not particularly germane to why the hands change relative value from one game to the other.

[CrisBrown]

Hi Wyatt,

I agree with what the others have said. I'm also starting a new thread -- All-In Equities Relative to Tournament Time -- which might help you.

Cris