What would you do with AKo in this spot ?

[Raven]

Its my first post here, I was discussing a hand with a friend and we decided to post it to have partial judges. It is a 6 handed live .25/.50 $ no-limit holdem game (I know its small stake but we take it seriously). UTG fold, he (Rudy), raise 2 $ from UTG +1 with AKo, a solid player (HappyJayppee that some of you may know here) call, I raise to 6 $, the SB fold and the BB (a loose player) go all-in for 3,50 $. Me and HappyJaypee know that he is raising a good hand in this spot (and he know it). His stack (Rudy) is about 30 $, HappyJayppe has us covered and Im left with 7 $, what sould he do ?

results later, thanks

[happyjaypee]

Hi Raven.

I'll help you out here by reposting it. Next time try to post a hand in a more "redable" form like this:



25c/50c Live NL game, 6-handed. I'm on CO

SB and Button are solid players,
BB and MP are weak-passive,
UTG loose-agressive.

UTG limp and MP fold. It's on me and I make it 2$ to go whit AKo. Button (Solid plr 1) cold call and SB (Solid plr 2) raise to 6$. BB fold and UTG call all-in for 3.50$.

What now? There is 14$ in the pot and it's 4$ more on me. SB just have 6.50$ left but Button has me covered (I have just short of 30$ left), has position on me and is yet to be heard of.

I read SB for JJ or better, maybe AK, And Button may have any pair or suited connecters here and will probably call if I do.

1: Call to see the flop?
2: Re-raise to set SB all-in and isolate him?
3: Fold.


Thx


-Happy /images/graemlins/laugh.gif


(Note: Raven was SB and I was on the button in the above hand. CO raiser was in a though spot and we discussed the hand afterwards. We could'nt agree on what was the right move so we decided to post it and see what you guys think.)

[1800GAMBLER]

If you read him for that, that means if you see the flop and miss you'll be folding. So 2/3 of the time you'll be folding this. 1/3 of the time you'll be leading the betting.

Hands/Combinations/Money going in cases:

AA: 3: 1/6th time K high flop you lose your stack. 1/16th time A flops you lose your stack. 37/48th of the time you lose your call.

KK: 3: 1/6th A flops you win the preflop pot (possibly more if he unlikely(?) bets the flop); 1/16th of the time you lose your stack when the K flops; 37/48th you lose your call.

QQ: 6: 1/3 A or K flops and you win the preflop pot (same as above); 2/3rd of the time you lose your call.

JJ: 6: 1/3 A or K flops and you win the preflop pot (same as above); 2/3rd of the time you lose your call.

AK is just tricky and depends on how you play, but just assume you slipt.

From that you can work out using the pot odds too what you should do with your hand, that only discusses call or fold though.

I don't think the pot is big enough preflop to justify a call here, i think it's a fold without running the math on it. TOP has the example against a player who would only reraise AA KK QQ and that's an easy muck; there is a post about that right now in General Theory.

I didn't include the amount of times you'll hit your hand and QQ JJ will hit a set since it's a 11:1(ish) shot.

I'm on my way out so i'll do the rest of the math later if you still want the answer.

Raising would be a bad idea in my opinion as you are either a small dog (against JJ QQ) or a big dog (AA KK). Where 2:1 on small dog: big dog.

It gets trickier with the other player, the math may get somewhere that the preflop pot is big enough to jusfity a call. You also have the extra hard issue of if he has a pair no more money goes in when you improve and he doesn't, if he has a suited connector the amount of money EV wise that is going in.

[happyjaypee]

Thx for the quick and clear reply Jay.


[ QUOTE ]
there is a post about that right now in General Theory.


[/ QUOTE ]

I looked for it but did'nt found it. can you post alink of just the post's title pls.

Thx


-Happy /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[1800GAMBLER]

Sorry i remembered it wrongly, this hand is QQ facing a raise from only AA KK AK, 3:2 of being a small favourite/big dog. Your case is less desireable than that. Post here is. (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=392177&page=0&view=collap sed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1) So what happened in the hand?

[happyjaypee]

CO folded is AKo

I was next on the button whit 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/spade.gif and it was 4$ on me whit 14$ in the pot. I decide to call, getting 3.5:1 from the pot in postion. I also felt I could push SB out of a big pair if an A flopped. I had failed to realised that SB had only 6.50$ left so I basically had no implied odds. Oh well.

Flop came rag-rag-A, two spades.

Ok, if he blink I bet. I toke a quick peek at his stack and only then saw he had 6.50$... hmmmm... I'm gonna set him in if he chk I thought.

SB pushed in and I mucked. UTG, who was all-in pre-flop, had QTo (go figure) and SB had QQ.

A 3 hit the turn and river was a blank...

I reach for the muck and showed my 33 has did CO. That's why we debated a lot over the hand, after seeing our hands.

To SB's credit, I think he played perfect considering is shortstack. CO's fold is good even if borderline and my call is questionnable, expecially since SB was shortsatck, destoying my implied odd in case I flop a set.


-Happy /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Zag]

Thanks for the clarification. I'll just assume that English is not Raven's native language, and he would have been perfectly clear in his birth tongue. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I was in a very similar situation recently, though I, unfortunately, had a little more information that led me down the wrong path. Re the original question, I think that a reraise would be a horrible option. You have put the SB on JJ or better, so you are (1) a little behind, (2) way behind, or (3) tied. I think a fold is the correct action, here.

So for my sad, sad case: Almost exactly the same seating: I had just sat down so I had posted in the cutoff, and was happy to find AKs as my first hand. UTG and 1 or 2 others limped, so I raised to 6 BB's ($12) with my AKs. Button called. UTG reraised the minimum and all folded to me.

Stacks: me: $100, ---- UTG: $110, ---- button: $200+

Sadly, this was on Party, and I had a note on UTG that said:

NL3: Overplays suited. KQs UTG limp-reR PF

which says that I have seen him limp-reraise preflop with KQs UTG in the past in the $100 buy-in no limit game (NL3). I should have added "your mileage may vary" to my note.

Because of my note, I put him on that hand without really thinking as hard as I should have. I rereraised to $70 to isolate this hand that I "knew" I had dominated, but, much to my surprise, the button raised us both, enough to put us both all in. UTG called. I was now looking at 9 to 1 odds to call my last $30, so I tossed it in, not very happy about it, desparately hoping that I am up against QQ and QQ, or just hoping to snag a flush, or, well, just unhappy.

As the cards dealt out, I was pleased to see a K fall on the turn, and I retained a little hope. However, UTG had KK, button had AA, and my AKs was in third place. UTG, who was behind even me preflop (according to two dimes), had hit his one out to scoop the $320 pot.

[happyjaypee]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the clarification. I'll just assume that English is not Raven's native language, and he would have been perfectly clear in his birth tongue.


[/ QUOTE ]


Bingo! Whe are French Canadians. /images/graemlins/cool.gif


-Happy /images/graemlins/laugh.gif