Is AKs profitable in this situation???

I am playing in a half kill game where if you win 2 hands in a row you must post a kill blind of 1.5 small bets and the game is played at a half kill.


I just won a hand and am thinking to myself to play extra tight because if I win the next hand the pot is basically being raked an additional 1.5small bets. Of course i do have some additional equity in the fact that most likely I will get to see a flop.


Anyway, I am in middle position with AcKc, UTg calls, UTG+1 who is a reasonable player(99-AA,AK,AQ,KQs) raises...


its now my action... is it profitable to cold call this raise or 3-bet when if I win I will be forced to post a kill blind?


What difference does itmake if I am expecting 3-way action if I 3-bet,or multi-way if I cold-call?


Off the top of my head I figure it is a slightly profitable situation.

Just as the subsequent forced post would have equity, so too you have an odd sort of equity with the AK in that you might not win the pot.


I've never played this structure, but I could imagine a scenerio in which my position on the subsequent hand could be enough to tip the scales. For instance, if I had a playable lie in the small blind, one that could be folded or played with equal expectation, and my forced kill would be from the button on the next hand, I'd be in there for sure.


Tommy

Tommy,


You wrote: "...if I had a playable lie in the small blind, one that could be folded or played with equal expectation, and my forced kill would be from the button on the next hand, I'd be in there for sure."


You have got to be kidding. You are essentially saying that it is profitable to post an unforced blind just because you have the button. I think you love the button too much ;-).


OTOH, I agree that the position of the possible kill matters a lot.


Regards,


Rick

"You have got to be kidding."


Well, no. More like unclear.


"You are essentially saying that it is profitable to post an unforced blind just because you have the button."


What I was saying was that if I had won the previous pot, and I'm thinking about entering the current pot, thereby setting myself up for possibly having to put out the kill on the next hand, I'd much rather put the kill out on the button than, say, mid-position, as was nf's case, which means that in a case of "all else being equal," the position on the third hand (the kill pot hand) could become a decision-making parameter on the second hand.


This doesn't mean that "it is profitable to post an unforced blind just because I have the button." It means that it's less unprofitable from there. Lot's of wind for an obvious thought. Whew, glad that's over. (Is it over?) :-)


Tommy

I'm not sure the prospect of killing the next pot has a lot of bearing on how you play this hand. Obvously, you want to win as much as you can with this or any other hand, and you should play to maximize your profit.


If there is a qualifier on the pot size to trigger a kill, then there will be a break-even point on the pot size you win, but I don't think I would let that influence my play.


AK suited plays well with multi way action, so smooth calling here could be the most profitable play.

(Is it over?) :-)


Not quite.


Since you haven't played in these games, there are a couple of other factors you need to consider.


There is usually a qualifier on the pot size to trigger the kill, i.e., the pot must be 10 big bets. And the killer usually has the last action btf on the kill hand. In effect, the killer becomes the big blind btf, and then plays in normal position after the flop.


Do these factors affect your strategy?

I think Bret is right...if you win this hand, then just look at that kill amount as a tax.


don't let the tail wag the dog...just play the hand as best you can.

i believe you can't let the kill factor in your decision here. you should play your hand the way it should be played regardless of the money you will have to put up later if you win. i would 3 bet his raise. if he has 99's-qq's your not much of a dog. AQ,KQs,AK your in very good shape. so you want raise to eliminate other players and give yourself the best chance to win. AKs plays a little better multi-way than ak off, but i'd still take the opportunity when in a good spot to drive people out of the pot.

"There is usually a qualifier on the pot size to trigger the kill, i.e., the pot must be 10 big bets. And the killer usually has the last action btf on the kill hand."


never heard of the first rule and ive played in several different kill games (looks like the poster here is describing 10-20 half kill).


the second rule is usually true, but ive played in rooms where it is not.


i think in this case, given heroes position, kill button status, and the suitedness of his AK, the AKs should just call and hope other players cold call. and im normally a big advocate of 3 betting strong hands preflop.

a person who wins 2 hands in a row posts a 1/2 kill blind. the minimum pot size required is such that it almost always occurs in this game.


this blind is 1.5 small bets.


the player acts in turn and not as the bb.


the kill is live.


several of you dont believe that the fact that if i win i will have to post 1.5 small bets makes a difference in the decision


does that mean you guys dont take the rake into account when considering how to play?


I remember abduls simulations showing that AKs was barely worth more than the blinds. well, basically the pot is being raked additionally the amount of the blinds... doesnt that hurt the profitability of this hand?

"Do these factors affect your strategy?"


The minimum pot-size thing, no. I'd expect the pot to reach that size if I come in.


"And the killer usually has the last action btf on the kill hand. In effect, the killer becomes the big blind btf, and then plays in normal position after the flop."


That makes the button even more attractive with last-to-act rights on every street including preflop. And while it does slightly lessen the pain of being in middle position, it doesn't do so by much, since the whole button-power thing in primarily a post-flop factor in multi-way loose games.


I guess this means the rule would make the AK a bit more attractive from the small blind, and a bit less more attractive otherwise.


Tommy

You retain about half your value when you kill it so a $6 kill in a 4/8 game costs about $3 in EV. Thus, when you have a leg up the next pot has an additional $3 rake in it as far as you are conserned.