10c-25c UB - PLO8 - anyone slowplay here?

[nicky g]

I guess not but it seems kind of tempting. I have KdKQdx and $25 in MP and limp after a few limpers. A few more behind me. Flop comes KJ4 rainbow. I bet the pot of $1.50 and get two callers, both of whom have me covered. Now the button goes all for 4 bucks and change. I have the option of reraising all-in, which I take. Anyone just call here? I know it's hugely dangerous, especially out of position, but at the same time I felt that a pot raise would almost certainly blow these guys out and I'd win at best the 4 bucks, losing my chance to take down up to $50 from the other two. Anyway as I thought they mucked and I had the other guy's KJ strangled, and won with the nut full when the jack on the board paired.

[Zag]

At a full table, which this sounds like, I would slowplay something like 75% of the time, here. This is because I am extremely tight post-flop at a full table, so anyone with functioning neurons would know I have top set if I reraised.

If I have a more aggressive image (perhaps because the table was recently short-handed and the two people still in were part of it, or just because I've had a great run of cards), I would raise. The reasoning is that if the other players' perception of my raising standards is low, then they will call with less.

It is true that you have some vulnerability, and you might even be behind AQT9. [ QUOTE ]
Nope, two-dimes analysis has you still ahead by more than 3-2, even if I include the KJ hand (which kills some of your redraws). http://www.twodimes.net/poker/?g=o&b=ks+jh+4d&d=&h=Kd+kh+Qd+7h%0D%0Akc+jc+2s+3d% 0D%0Aas+qh+td+9c

[/ QUOTE ] But, with no flush draw out there, you are not very vulnerable and you will know if you are beaten.

While I don't hate the raise, here. I think it is also very reasonable to call and see if you can get $4 more out of your opponents. Heck, you might even get a raise from one who is getting cute with QT. Note that, since you have enough for another bet, their analysis of the odds can not count the two tries to hit a straight, but only the turn card. You will bet all in on the turn if there is still no straight possible, and you will be ahead of anybody. Or, if the board pairs on the turn, you will check, hoping to let them make a straight on the river.

[nicky g]

Thanks for this. I was under the impression that slowplaying in general was a bad idea in PLO8 with any likely draws out, especially out of postion. Obviously I'd have a problem if an A or 9 fell, but I suppose that's a risk worth taking given the possible rewards if those two stay in. Ah well, next time.

[crockpot]

i don't like this slowplay, for the simple reason that every turn card that does not pair the board creates either a straight or backdoor low possibility. even the backdoor flush possibilities are nothing to sneeze at.

yes, he won't have all of these hands, but reading his hand at this point is very difficult. if you're not going to reraise pot here, at least reraise enough that you can get it all in on the turn.

[Zag]

[ QUOTE ]
if you're not going to reraise pot here, at least reraise enough that you can get it all in on the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

I totally agree with this statement. In other words, if the stacks were a lot deeper than in your example, then you should reraise here on the flop because you don't want to give straight draws to have any significant implied odds. However, the original poster said originally that he had the option of reraising all in (on the flop). If he could do that, then he could bet all in on the turn, too. (Hmmm, looking at his original numbers, it doesn't look like he could have raised all in. I think some estimation went awry.)

As I said, I don't hate a reraise, here, and I would do it a noticeable percentage of the time. It depends on a lot of things, including how tricky I think the other players are. (If a scare card comes out, could they bluff it?)

[nicky g]

"Hmmm, looking at his original numbers, it doesn't look like he could have raised all in. I think some estimation went awry.)"

The all-in must have been a bit more than $4, possibly an extra $4 rather than a total of 4. My reraise was definitely all-in or effectively all-in (possibly a dollar or so left).

Anyway, I was wondering. If you flat call here and one or two of the others call, what's your play on the turn (assuming no ace or 9 flops)? Would you bet out and hope for another call, or go for a check-raise? As it happened the turn was the 6 clubs, putting two clubs and a low draw out. I suppose a pot bet would be mandatory here.