K9 o--complete or no?

[DougBrennan]

$5 2-table SnG on Stars, 15 left out of 18, passive table, lots of limping.
Blinds at 25/50, I'm in SB with K9o. Five limpers to me, and it would be out of character for the BB to raise. I assume the 11-1 pot odds would make a call mandatory here. I did, not much happened (something went wrong with my hand history request, didn't get hand) but my question is more general anyway.

What do you look for to complete the SB? I haven't seen much in the forum regarding this question. I know it's probably mostly situationaly dependent,
but do pot odds alone constitute a good reason to call? Or should I stick closer to starting hand requirements, lowering the standards only a bit, or not at all?

Later in the same tourney I talked myself out of completing the SB with 4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, and of course the flop was A25 rainbow.

[fnurt]

It really depends upon what % of your stack is going to be invested. Attaching a number to that statement is for wiser heads than me...

In general, you should be more eager to complete with a holding that can flop a big hand. In this sense, I'd think 43s is a much better bet than K9o. In fact, K9o is really no better than any random 2 cards, the point being that if you don't flop 2 pair or better, good luck making any money (and generally I would not call just for the chance to flop 2 pair, which is like 25-1).

[togilvie]

If you complete, there aren't many flops other than TJQ that I'm happy playing out of position against anything but terrible players. With flops that make a small hand (contain a K or 9), you either win a little or lose big. I fold without a second thought.

[Schmed]

a passive table without a lot of preflop raising I'm thinking you are wrong for not playing the 34s.

I complete with K9o everytime for one half of a bet.

[Schmed]

another flop you like with the K9o is when you flop top pair.

I complete and this is one of those hands that you have to play poker well. If a K hits it's probably not good but then again it's not automatically bad.

[fnurt]

for me playing poker well = not getting trapped with top pair/lousy kicker out of position!

especially in NL this is a classic situation where you can win a small pot or lose a big one. don't get seduced by the low price tag!

[Schmed]

it's a point well taken. It was actually kind of funny. I just had finished typing that and I was in the SB in a 10-1 Paradise sit n go and what do I get....k9s...okay so it was suited....I complete, catch top pair top kicker, (fill up on the river but I was ahead the entire way)....

I know what you are saying and I think the default play is to fold but as I have heard in many places once you complete that blind then it's time to play good poker.

Personally with a hand like that I really don't want to see the K on the flop, I want the 9.

You're right though it is one of those situations where you can lose big if you're not careful.

[Che]

I think Ciaffone says not to complete the SB unless you would limp from the button with the same hand.

However, I have a lot of trouble applying this guideline so here's what I actually do:

When the blinds are extremely small relative to the size of my stack, I will complete with any two cards if there are 2 or more limpers. Generally, this only happens in the first two rounds (10/20 and 15/30 at stars), but once in a blue moon my stack will grow fast enough to maintain the proper ratio a few extra rounds. My reasoning is that there are at most 2 to 3 opportunities to do this each tourney and the 10-30 chips I usually burn don't significantly alter my chances but occasionally knocking someone out when two-pair or better flops does alter my chances significantly. (I realize that good players will not go down in flames with TPTK, but they do it often in the games I frequently play - $10-$30 SnG's.)

Later, when completing the SB would make a noticeable dent in my stack, my standards shift to the other end of the spectrum and I play only premium hands (i.e. there are many hands I would play on the button that I would not play from the SB).

I'm reasonably successful at the low buyin games, but I'm still a novice so follow this advice at your own risk... /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[CrisBrown]

Hi dbrennan,

Short answer: It depends. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Long answer: what's your stack, who's in the pot ahead of you, from what positions, what are their stacks, how skilled to you estimate them to be, how skilled to you estimate YOURSELF to be, how skilled do your OPPONENTS estimate you to be, etc., etc., etc.

I've completed on K9os, hit flops of K-K-9, checked until other players caught something, and busted them. I've come in and hit a 9-9 flop and busted someone on T9s. I've hit K-high flops and won small pots. I've hit K-high pots and lost small pots. And I've folded K9os more times than I can count.

It just depends. Sorry.

Cris

[Acesover8s]

[ QUOTE ]
I was in the SB in a 10-1 Paradise sit n go and what do I get....k9s...okay so it was suited....I complete, catch top pair top kicker

[/ QUOTE ]

Ahh, good, Paradise finally took my advice and removed all the Aces from the deck.