Strategy against cheat.

I'm relatively new to this game. Yesterday, for the first time I visited local club to play some poker.

Wild loose game, everybody is raising and capping pot with hands like J6s or A4o.80% on the flop.

I remembered a phrase from Rounders movie " If you can't spot the sucker in the first half an hour- you are the sucker". But in this case I realized the either all of them are suckers or something else is going on.

Remembering advise from this great site I started to play very tight and managed to win 60BB in 5 hours,

playing only 6 or 7 hands.

I'm pretty sure couple of guys played on one hand, I saw things like card flashing, pot feeding trap ( sorry

don't know specific terminology) etc. But I'm afraid I missed some other things, so my question is what else should I pay attention to when I suspect cheating, how should I adjust my game. I know, some people will say don't play this type of game, but first of all in our local club most games like that and secondly I can face this situation in any other game.

Thanks, sorry for the long post.

are you sure they were cheating? they were probably just alot of people having a good time gambling. most likely the club would not allow cheating because they would be out of business pretty quick when everybody caught on. if they were cheating, they did a very bad job at it. letting you talk out 60 big bets out of the game! lol. they can cheat in my games any time they let me take out 60 big bets. play until your not beating it. if your not, then reevaluate. in games like this just play very solid.

i think you ran into a simple case of a game where everyone knows each other and are carefree about the money. happens a lot. even in the big games. it may seem like cheating is going on but probably not. it looks suspicious when people are flashing cards and making raises that seem strange but thats just what they do. remember they are playing for fun and do things that enhance their fun even though some of those things look strange. to be cheating you have to see that the things they do really improve their winning chances or it isnt worth worrying about. remember also they are there for their fun and not to make the game more profitable for you. continue going and reap the rewards and act accordingly as you are welcome back. good luck.

Thanks for your input, may be you are right they just having fun. But to me it was very suspisious when two those guys and I stayed on the flop. I had 88 and raised/open pre-flop from MP, flop was 456r. Guy on the right(GR) bet I raised, guy on the left(GL)re-raised, cap. Turn is 8. GR bet, I call, GL raised, re-raised, call, cap . I saw GR was flashing 7, but I decided I'm gonna stay anyway still have ten outs. River was 4, GR bets I raised( may be should call to invite GL to re-raise) GL mucked. I asked him to show his cards, he had 22.

Can you explain me if he just was having fun re-raising and capping? I doubt it. But if that the case I'm glad to play this type of game, I had fun too.


Thanks, again

First off, your post isn't even CLOSE to a long post. Five pages is a long post. Yours is barely a postcard. This post is closer to being LONG.


In this type of wild game, you have to pretty much buckle down like you did and play very few hands. The fluctuations in wild games are very high. It will cost you too much to see the flop with most hands, even those you might normally play in a more passive game. Hold out for your best hands and you will stand a chance of winning. Even doing this, you can still lose your ass in a wild game, don't forget this or make too much of your success here.


Now the types of things you mentioned going on in the game could mean a number of things…


1. These players may be wild, crazy guys, who came to gamble, and don't really care that much whether they win or lose. They might just get off to making huge pots and winning and losing large sums of money. In addition, if they all know each other, they may be feeding off each other's wild play, and fueling the fires more. As others have pointed out, this does not necessarily equate cheating. If this is the case, the game is even more dangerous than you may have thought it was, but not because there is cheating going on. It's just that the wilder the game gets, the more your fluctuations increase.


2. There may in fact be cheating going on in this game. "Whipsawing" is what I believe you referred to as the "pot feeding trap". This is where two players keep raising each other to trap others inbetween and build a big pot. It is truly whipsawing if they are intentionally doing this specifically for the purpose of trapping players for more bets. Whipsawing usually occurs when two players are in collusion, and they don't care which one of them wins the pot, because they will be splitting the money later. In addition, they will often be seated at opposite ends of the table while doing this, but this is not a steadfast rule. I have seen collusion once where the players were right next to each other, one would raise, then the next reraise to drive players out. This is still cheating, but isn't exactly "whipsawing". If the players are showing each other their cards BEFORE the action is complete, and are therefore acting on knowledge they are not entitled to, this is also cheating.


In any case, if you suspect cheating is going on in a game you are playing, I suggest handling it quietly and subtly. The times I have noticed obvious (or suspected) cheating, I ALWAYS go to the floorperson in charge. However, I make it a point NOT to make it obvious to the players at the table. For one thing, if they notice you ratting them out, they will probably stop cheating immediately. Good luck trying to get the house to go back over the security footage to confirm your claims. Another thing, your ratting might cause serious bad feelings among the players at the table, whether they were involved or not, ESPECIALLY if you are mistaken and there really isn't any cheating going on. However, if you suspect cheating, you SHOULD tell the floor! Just do it quietly, subtly, and out of view of those people you are pointing out. Don't rush straight to the floor as soon as you see something occur, the cheaters KNOW they are cheating and will probably figure out what happened. I saw obvious cheating going on in AC once at the Trop. I waited a few hands, then quietly slipped away and pointed out what was going on to the floorperson, out of view of the table. They handled it very discreetly and professionally. Keep in mind that the house doesn't want cheating any more than you do, it's bad for business. Since they get paid either way, the house has an honest stake in keeping the games legit. It is your duty as an honest player to report these things, but to do so in a way that will not cause excessive problems in the cardroom you are in. And finally, if you are certain that cheating is occuring, and the house refuses to stop it, quit playing there. You can't beat a game where collusion is being allowed to occur unchecked. You may win today, but you will inevitably lose.


Dave in Cali

Thanks, Dave, very useful information.

I'll keep in mind your advise.

Dave:


I concur. Excellent post. I have seen several times when players misinterpret loose, fun loving players, for cheaters. This often happens when a husband and wife or close friends are involved. These players typically are responsible for contributing large sums of money to the game. The offending party starts making loud confronting accusations directed at the contributors. As has been stated in many articles, these players quickly get insulted and take their "easy" money somewhere else.

i recently played in a similar game in vegas last week,where I was at a table with 8 guys in a bachelor party, me and one other player. It was a great game with money being tossed around in a "fun" game.


Pat