raising draws

I'm looking for a little more detail on when it is correct to raise draws on the flop. Specifically, I am interested in straights and flushes. I typically play in lower limit games where several players will see the flop (even when it's raised!). The game is pretty loose/passive.


What are you looking for when determining to raise (i.e. expected odds, implied odds, number of players) if you've flopped a four flush or four straight? I think the odds of hitting a flush on the turn or river (with a four flush flopped) are about 2 to 1 against, right? Does this mean you have to have at least 2 callers to be making a raise worthwhile? How does the betting on the turn (if any) figure in?


Any advice would be appreciated. Answers that contain details, examples, and mathematics are really appreciated!


Thanks!

There are three types of raises with a draw: Raising to get more money into the pot, the semi-bluff, and raising to get a free (discount) card. To get more money into the pot, you need to raise after everyone has called. Do this when you are drawing to a nut flush or nut open ended straight.


Semi-bluff when you think you can win the hand right there, but if someone calls you may still make your straight and even get a free card. Do this when the player immediately or close to your right raises, or when you have the opportunity to check raise. You should probably do this when your straight or flush is not the nuts nor your straight open-ended.


A final note. Don't get carried away with this. Two bad things can happen. A lack of selectivity may cost you, and you allow the person to your left to reraise which may end up knocking players out thereby reducing the implied odds you need to chase that hand.


That's about all I can add. I would like comments as well.

It is EXTREMELY rare for a flush draw or full straight draw to NOT go to the river (excepting threatening boards with raises). You should therefore presume you ARE going to the river. Therefore, your chances of making the hand are a little better than 2:1 for the flush draw and a little worse than 2:1 for the straight draw. Implied odds have a lot to do when deciding a close call, but have almost nothing to do with a close bet or raise (i.e. your raise doesn't change your implied odds much). Yes, to raise for value you need to expect at least 2 callers. If you DO get exactly 2 callers, your chances of losing when you make your hand (someone makes an even bigger hand) are about the same as you will lose when you miss (say when you snag a pair).


Getting exactly 1 tenacious reraiser is the only bad thing that can happen when you raise with a draw.


Raising is almost always worthwhile. However, if the bettor is on your right and there are potential callers on your left, calling is almost always better since you get more callers if you don't raise.


Note that having over-cards greatly improves your chances and you SHOULD raise a bet on your left, since this will increase the chances you win when you snag your top pair.


Things change drastically if the board is paired. Straight draws drop in value when there is a 2-flush, and are hopeless when there is a 3-flush on board.


Rich-P's post should make more sense now.


- Louie