Stuey bad for poker?

[Duke]

This started as a response to Mason in another thread, but I figured I'd top post it since it's long.

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Despite his great abilities, I just don't think it is long term good for poker to be presenting people like this as if they are something to be admired.

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I don't think people are obtuse enough to try to emulate all facets of a person's character because they either admire or respect one aspect of their persona. Artists don't cut their ears off because van Gogh did. And they don't fault him for not being good with photo-realism. They appreciate what he gave them, and remember him for that.

Every sport, hobby or profession has a history filled with characters of varying nature and eccentricities. I think it's good for poker to have such a wide array of people who in one way gave something to it that couldn't have come from anybody else. I think it would be rather dull if we tended to ignore or forget those who were notable for whatever reason, just because they had fatal flaws that should obviously not be emulated.

At the very least, this guy taught us a lesson. Perhaps it's one that shouldn't need to be taught, but examples sometimes drive home points better than words ever could.

He lived a couple dreams that I'm sure some of us have. He won the WSOP. And he won it again. He had a wife and daughter who probably loved him. At times he truly had the world by the ass, only to give it all away the following day. For whatever reason. The reason doesn't even matter. If it was his own lack of appreciation for anything, then so what?

So he did it to himself. Big deal. Is he a tragic character? You bet your sweet ass he is. Most people are their own worst enemy, just not on such a grand scale. I'm not asking anyone to feel for the guy, or to pity him. Yeah, he did it to himself. Learn from it.

Andy started a couple excellent threads about (to paraphrase) bending over and kissing your own ass in appreciation of what we all have going for us. Some of us are pretty damn good poker players. Some of us have pretty damn good lives. And some of us have a hell of a lot to not only be thankful for, but to do whatever we can in our power to protect that for as long as we can. The dying kid in the hospital and the guy who did die with his kids by his side can't do a damn thing about what happened to them. But most of us can. For those who can't, we feel pity. For those who could, but didn't, we feel regret. To those who had to do nothing more than not be a crack headed compulsive gambler, well, we just shake our heads and grimace at the ground, or at their picture on the wall in the Binions poker room. And we owe it to them to not be like that. To not squander what we've either lucked into or worked hard at to gain.

So, is admiring him for what he was in that regard bad for poker? Probably. I'll agree with Mason on that. But do we forget him, or try to forget things about him and only remember the good stuff? I don't think we do that either. I think we leave him as he is, who he was, and take him as an example not only of a guy who got to live our dreams, but as a guy who showed flat out what can happen if you aren't careful with how you run your own life.

On the whole, I think Stuey is great for poker. As a world class specialist, and as a world class bad example.

~D

[andyfox]

And I don't mean because of the kind words you had in it about me.

Maybe some of the Stuey aura comes because he died young and tragically. I remember Johnny Moss as the old guy at the Dunes looking kind of confused and slow. No one will ever have memories of Ungar like that.

[Nottom]

I think what Mason was trying to say is that portraying a person who was a compusive gambler, drug addict, in with the mob, and didn't play with his own money as the greatest poker player of all time isn't a good thing for poker. Things like the WPT help to make poker more mainstream and bring in new players. Stueys life certainly doesn't shine a good light on people who call themselves professional poker players and serves to remind people of its shadier past.

[Daliman]

KInda funny you mention mob backing. I have no other knowledge of it, but for anyone who read Slim's new book find it a bit pot and kettle that Slim referred to Stuey as being backed by the mob. I'm sure Slim had some backing of his own, not to mention Mr Moss.

[adios]

I understand that a book is being written about Ungar and a movie's being made about his life story. I'll wait for the dollar movies or wait for it to come on free tv and I wouldn't expect to be watching it for very long. I wouldn't expect it to do very well at the box office or in the bookstores. But I could be very wrong and other might find his life fascinating so bring on the book and the movie by all means.

Hey I don't know how talented he was. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt and say he was a great talent. Just another person who self destructed that had great talent. I think fame and fortune are more difficult to handle than most people might think (not that I'm an expert on that subject). Anybody know anything about Sam McDowell? IMO perhaps the greatest pitching talent I've ever seen. He did have some great, great performances in the major leagues but self destructed on alcohol. His career stats indicate he was a mediocre pitcher at best but in reality he was a great talent. Today he councils alcoholics and works to rehabillitate them. Somehow I'd find a movie about him more interesting and worthwhile than a movie about Ungar who had great talent but in reality screwed over a lot of people it seems and was totally self indulgent. I find that real boring personally.