Another Example of Blacks Saying "Gotsta have Blacks"

[AmericanAirlines]

Just one more case of a "Black Caucus" trying to enforce something other than a color blind meritocracy... but instead, enforced quotas of blacks...

Yet another example of the acceptability of a *Black* Caucus but not a *White* one.

Anyone else fed up with this double standard?

Gov. Bush's $310 million Scripps deal riles legislative Black Caucus

http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/palm_beach_news/article/0,1651,TCP_1020_2370124,00.html

Having had to leave my home town in that region due to a sucky post '87 economy this particularly pisses me off. They're trying to block a potential 13.2 billion in projected revenues over the next 15 years for that area.

Bunch a *ssholes.

Sincerely,
AA

[brad]

u realize whitey banker funds all these guys, right? ford foundation, etc.

divvide and conquer.

[MMMMMM]

Ford Foundation is extremely liberal.

[AmericanAirlines]

To be honest brad I don't realize it. If we were being stereotypical wouldn't it be Jewish bankers?

Is it my imagination or does the Jewish community seem to be aligned with or perhaps even "using" the blacks, as some suggest?

Some of my Jewish friends profess a kinship to the blacks because of the slavery issue. Thier slavery in Egypt supposedly parallels the blacks slavery in the deep south.

To which I generally reply that Egyptians are africans and Africa probably taught the world slavery. With the possible exception of the Greeks. Who was first, I'm not sure.

Anyway, elaborate on this "Divide and Conquer" strategy you refer too. Sounds interesting. Who is it that whitey banker is trying to divide and conquer exactly?

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

As as aside, I'm all for a law that says, "Can't exclude based on race". At least for non-privately held companies.

But this is the dead opposite. This is an attempt to say, "You must hire xx% based on race". Which is why it's so infuriating.

It's essentially the african community trying to commit it's own sin. Seems rather parallel to the situation the Jews are attempting to set up in the mid east as well.

Both groups decry racism, but then want thier race to be "special".

Sincerely,
AA

[brad]

middle class.

i'll elaborate later but its easy to figure out.

look at british how they colonized africa. they set one tribe against another. that way small minority could have power.

[adios]

My understanding is that many jobs at Scripps require a fairly high level of education. Therefore a request like:

Jennings said the Black Caucus is seeking $10 million of federal economic stimulus money to be diverted to the black colleges, chiefly Tallahassee's Florida A&M University, the largest of the black universities. And the caucus wants legislation specifying that at least 10 percent of any money Scripps reimburses the state be directed to research programs at the black colleges and universities.

seems reasonable to me in order to provide enough educational opportunities so that more black candidates will be qualified for these Scripps jobs. From reading the article it seems that all of the one time economic stimulus money provided by the Feds for Florida is looking to spent to bring Scripps in. It looks to me like these leaders want to have some of the money RECEIVED FROM SCRIPPS reinvested to provide more opportunities for blacks. FWIW this seems like a positive thing to me. Nobodys asking for a freebee as far as I can tell. What they're saying in my mind is that hey the economic stimulus money should benifit all Florida residents not just an exclusive few that are qualified to work at Scripps.

[Michael Davis]

The Egyptians had slaves before the Greeks, but slavery had been around long before the concept of a civilization, I'm sure.

-Mike

[Boris]

Burn any crosses lately?

Special interest groups playing political hardball to get a slice of pork is certainly not confined to Black legislators.

[lil']

Yet another example of the acceptability of a *Black* Caucus but not a *White* one.

I may regret getting involved in a political thread in this forum but...

Please explain to me the need for a white caucus.

[MMMMMM]

"Please explain to me the need for a white caucus."

No need. However, I believe that in the year 2003 there is no need for a black caucus either, nor any need for any racially segregated caucuses.

M

[andyfox]

Hve you seen the statistics on black infant mortality, educational achievement, crime, and income? Although we probably disagree on the relative importance of the causes, there is no denying that blacks fare less well in America than whites.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
Burn any crosses lately?

[/ QUOTE ]




come on, this is just dumb.

[Dr Wogga]

....and just about anything pushed by the naacp, jesse "the spitter", or any of the black racists

[MMMMMM]

"Although we probably disagree on the relative importance of the causes, there is no denying that blacks fare less well in America than whites."

True, but, I believe, irrelevant. I don't really see how a "black caucus" would improve such things at all.

Here is how I rate the causes of the problems you mention:

1) Primary cause: low-income.

Perhaps a "low-income caucus," then, would be more to the point--if indeed there is any way under the sun a "caucus" could truly contribute to addressing and remedying the problems.

Similarly with Affirmative Action: the main problems today are economic, not racial. The racial aspect has pretty much passed, and indeed certain minorities even get significant privileges today by virtue of their race. The poorest whites and poorest Asians need help more than the ricest blacks or richest Hispanics.

If economics is the primary cause of poor scholastic performance, why not link Affirmative Action directly to those most in need of it economically? More blacks than whites are poor today, thus blacks (and Hispanics) would still reap more benefits from Affirmative Action than whites. But at least the group linked would be the group most in need of it. The group in need would be more accurately defined and targeted. It just seems that today, prejudice is not the biggest obstacle minorities have to overcome. Those who are held back are hobbled far more by their economic situation than by bigotry. So why confuse the issue, why assign benefits or Affirmative Action by race rather than by economic need. (I'm not saying that even that sort of Affirmative Action would necessarily be a good thing, but I think it would be more accurately targeted to where the true need is.)

2) Cultural habits.

Asians are the most outstanding students in America on average today. Their cultural habits demand lots of hard work and hard study. Surprise, surprise. A large percentage also end up going into high-paying technical and professional fields. More study + less TV = better grades and better future.

Blacks have had a cultural crisis in America for a long time, even today, even after civil rights legislation passed, even after bigotry no longer holds them back to a large extent, even after they have gotten hired or admitted to schools where they wouldn't have strictly on merit, due to Affirmative Action. Black on black violence is the highest rate of violence in the country. Broken homes, drugs, etc...the black culture in America needs some work, to put it mildly, and it isn't all due to economics because other poor groups do not have as high a rate of these problems. When Daniel Patrick Moynihan first called attention, in the early '60's, to the problems facing black families, he was roundly castigated for calling attention to a problem that has since been recognized and has even gotten worse.

3) Bigotry holding them back.

I suggest this is more than offset today by Affirmative Action, EEO, FHA, etc. especially since bigotry in the general population is rather mild in most cases or doesn't exist at all. In fact there are so many people who are knee-jerk against anything that carries even a whiff of bigotry that I wouldn't be surprised if the so-called "discriminated against" groups aren't today actually favored to some degree. Definitely they are favored legally.

[andyfox]

Are you saying that it is irrelevant that blacks fare less well in America?

You say that the main problems are economic, not racial. They may not be racist, but there is no question that they are racial. Blacks, as a group, do less well. There is a clearly defined racial gap between blacks and whites.

Thus the need for groups that make an effort to help the members of the race doing less well. The causes that result in their doing less well can be debated. Not the fact that they are.

[MMMMMM]

I disagree with your reasoning, Andy.

If it is necessary or desirable to help economically disadvantaged people, then it is necessary or desirable to help economically disadvantaged people of all races or groups, not only those of certain races.

Since helping poor people regardless of race would also help far more blacks than whites on a percentage basis, because more blacks are poor in the first place, the goal of helping blacks as a race would be met also.

Try imagining this as set theory, and I think you might see what I'm saying.

The poorest of Group A need help more than do the richest of Group B, even if Group B on average needs more help than Group A. And since Group B does need more help on average than Group A, but only the lower economic parts of Group B need help, by helping the most disadvantaged individuals regardless of group, two things are accomplished: the help goes where it is needed most, and the group that needs the most help also gets the most help--and where it is most needed. However the focus with this method is on the individual rather than the group. Rather interesting how focusing on individuals can result in desired group effects!

Also, it is mistaken to presume that all different groups would necessarily perform equally given equal opportunity. Obviously the Asians proved that they could accomplish more with less--due, rather obviously, to their work and study habits, since they aren't genetically any smarter--right? So it is irrational to necessarily expect or demand equal performance beween groups which have tendencies to different customs or habits.

You can slice it any way you like, but what I'm saying makes sense. Throw your preconceptions away and just look at the whole thing logically. Help needs to go where it is most needed on an individual basis, and that will take care of the group as well, since the group happens to be comprised of individuals. It is also the most fair method, and avoids the unfairness of helping those who least need it in any group, and thankfully helps those who need it most regardless of what group they happen to be in.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
So it is irrational to necessarily expect or demand equal performance beween groups which have tendencies to different customs or habits.


[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you think the different customs and habits come from? Customs come from long-standing traditions. Our country had/has a long-standing tradition of denying Blacks equal opportunity. How, exactly, our treatment of Black men and women affect their customs is unclear --- but, there is no doubt in my mind that it has affected their customs in a negative way. For decades and decades we set up a system where young black children had no/few opportunities and when opportunities did exist they had very few role models with whom they could relate. Affirmative Action policies are, in part, designed to create visible role models within the community to whom children can relate.

I think that your ultimate position (that we should aim our affirmative action policies at low income) is a great ultimate goal; however, I think we've got a few steps to go before we get there. There are several obstacles that I feel we need to overcome first:

- relatively small number of role models that are of certain racial minorities
- deeply entrenched old-boy networks in the best colleges and universities that tend to keep those universities white
- subconscious racial discrimination in hiring where white male supervisors/managers tend to hire candidates who remind them of themselves (which tend to be more white males) or on a broader level, they tend to hire people who they can relate to

~elwood

[ACPlayer]

I dont see the big deal. If a group of people want to get together and assemble into a group and state positions, go after deals, lobby for something. So be it. Happens all the time by lots of different groups.

Why pick on a group that is defined based on race?

[adios]

Hate to speak for AA but I believe his point is that if a group formed of caucasions, perhaps calling themselves the white caucus, with the express purpose of promoting the interests of causcasions they would be condemned as racist out of hand. Furthermore his point I believe is that if there's nothing wrong with blacks forming such a caucus there should be nothing wrong with white's forming such a caucus. Notice I've only attempted to elucidate his point and don't necessarily support that position. Personally I believe that the USA has come a long way towards racial equality. In certain situations I believe affirmative action is probably ok. I certainly don't believe that we need a heavy handed quota system of some sort. With an economy based on free and open markets discrimination purely on grounds of rance, sexual orientation, etc. becomes silly and costly.

[ACPlayer]

I dont see that having a black caucus promotes affirmative action by itself. They may want to promote AA and if so fine let them. There are plenty of groups that want to do away with it, a good old fashioned donnybrook to decide the issue is our way of doing business.

if Ameican Airlines wants to form a white caucus that fine as well. I doubt if it will have much work to do, but perhaps it will find some. If some one condemns it as racist, well, the black caucus is racist so the white caucus will be one too. Specially if you define racism as organizing to protect and promote the rights of a group based on race. I dont quite define racism that way, but ....

Personally, i am generally opposed to all quotas and preferences, I am however in favor of diversity and honest ways of achieving that.

[andyfox]

Had to change the post title to get rid of American Airlines's disgusting racist post title.

Anyway, I understand what you're saying. I think you're wrong.

Your argument is that a rising tide help all the boats that are listing or sinking. But history teaches us otherwise.

Black economic disadvantage, by your own admission, owes something to factors that are not just economic. There are cultural differences, as you point out in this post, and racism problems, which you pointed out in a previous post. So there is no question, by your own statements, that the problems of blacks, while part of a general problem, also have a racial (not necessarily racist) component.

What's wrong with focusing on both individual and on groups, when the facts show that the particular group is doing badly compared to other groups? The particular cases of unfairness where either a nondeserving individual gets help or a deserving individual doesn't get help are far outweighed by the masses of people who need it get help.

No one is saying that we shouldn't help people of all races or groups. But things get done through concerted group action. A group that recognizes that a particular race or group has problems in excess of the general population, and directs their efforts towards helping that group, can help.

[AmericanAirlines]

Why should "historically black" colleges get anymore than anyone else?

Why should the caucus insist on quotas?

It still seems to me like "give us money because we're black" to to me.

If you want the US to be a meritocracy, the race question should never turn up on a job or college applications. Simple as that.

As I've stated elsewhere, no one seems to gripe about the under representation of whites in Pro Sports. So it's still pretty one sided from my viewpoint.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Nope, I don't support the KKK either. To me thier just another group that would willingly use force to get me to do what they want.

[AmericanAirlines]

It's not about the need per se (though it is getting that way).

It's about the *acceptability* of it.

It's acceptable for any group but whites to put thier race in the title of the organization.

If *whites* do this they are branded Nazis.

Just one more case of all non-white groups getting away with anti-white racism.

Sort of like "I can break the rules, I'm a {fill in the blank} but you can't because you're a {fill in the blank}.

It's simply a case of inequality in Political Correctness.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Perhaps the crime rate among the black populace is exactly why they are collectively, the problem.

High density of blacks = High density of crime, AIDS, out of wedlock birth rate, etc.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Andy,
Perhaps the do less well because the aren't up to par.

Consider the NBA or NFL, perhaps there are less whites there than in the general populace (percentage-wise) because whites do less well at NBA and NFL activities.

In essence the form competition has sorted out the the groups as to how they perform at various things.

So perhaps white men can't jump and black men can't fit into an Anglo based society as well.

That's a meritocracy, isn't it?

But to me it's much less important that having the freedom to stay away from and not do business with those I don't wish to. For any reason. What's the point in owning a business for example, if I can't make those basic decisions?

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Well Daryn,
This is the perfect example of what I was saying.

Black Caucus - OK

White Caucus = KKK or Nazi.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi MMMMMM's,
But am I really a bigot if the statistics indicate there's a higher risk in dealing with some racial group, and I simple argue for the right not too?

Seems to me that just simply accepting the facts and dealing with them in the lowest risk fashion.

And apart from that. What if I simply don't like a particular groups traits? No matter what they are. For example, you gonna sit there and tell me you treat obese women the same in your social equations as you do "Barbie Doll" types.

You can say it, but I don't believe it.

Trying to legislate who people must deal with is to take away a freedom of choice.


Sincerely,
AA

[MMMMMM]

"Your argument is that a rising tide help all the boats that are listing or sinking."

I don't think that's my argument in this case, andy.

I also think that the initial racist ways that caused the disadvantage have been largely eliminated at this point in time in the USA. Therefore, helping individuals would target the help far more to where it is needed than would helping "groups."

[andyfox]

Your society would be a pretty ugly one.

I own a business. You would have it so that I wouldn't have to sell or employee blacks if I didn't want to. And I could pay blacks less than whites becuase I felt like it. And I wouldn't have to rent my apartment unit out to blacks because I don't like them and don't want to be near them.

Is this a fair summary of your views?

[andyfox]

If we concede that the intial racist ways that caused the disadvantage have been largely eliminated, the disadvantage still has not. Why not, in addition to helping needy individuals, target those groups that, as a group, need the most help? I don't think the members of the congressional black caucas refuse to vote or participate on all issues other than those that are racial. One can endeavor to help individuals and groups.

[MMMMMM]

"Why not, in addition to helping needy individuals, target those groups that, as a group, need the most help?

Because groups are the sum of individuals. How well-targeted do you want your help to be?

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
...am I really a bigot if the statistics indicate there's a higher risk in dealing with some racial group, and I simple argue for the right not too?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly the mentality that created the need for affirmative action policies and civil rights legislation in the first place. "I'm not racist, everyone else is. That's why I won't hire black people, it will hurt my business because everyone else is racist." The free market just doesn't work if people maintain an irrational disposition against a particular group of individuals.

[andyfox]

Groups are more than the sum of the individuals. Women make less money than men because each individual woman, on average, makes less, but also because, as a group, they are discriminated against in overt and subtle ways. So if we direct our efforts towards the group, we go a long way towards solving the problem.

A black caucas does not obviate the need for individual help. It attempts to call attention to, and provide solutions for, the disadvantaged situation of blacks in America, the facts of which, are not in dispute.

[MMMMMM]

A black caucus might well be a good thing, I don't know. However I think that among the problems blacks face today, discrimination against them ranks way down the list. Affirmative Action, if indeed it should exist in the first place, should be targeted to the individuals most in need of it (economics not race).

[andyfox]

You may be right, that discrimination is a relatively minor problem. But you may not be. By targeting members of a group that do, as a group, less well than others, you do indeed help more needy individuals as a result.

[AmericanAirlines]

Elwood... If the statistics bear out that a group is more prone to voilent acts... exactly what's irrational about avoiding that group?

Are you awake?

The statistics objectively bear out the bias as rational!

Sincerely,
AA

[ACPlayer]

This discussion clearly demonstrates why the Black Caucus believes it should continue to exist.

It also reminds me that my general position against quotas should still be reviewed periodically, and watching how diversity is implemented is critical. Racial bigotry is still prevalent.

If an apparently well educated person holds views that are so patently offensive, then .......

[AmericanAirlines]

Yes and No,
As long as all the assets in question were not Gov't or Market funded. I.e you earned them yourself.

I take exception to discriminatory salary levels as well.

If a two people are doing the same work to the same level of quality, the there's no justification for different salaries.

In some sense, "At will employment" with it's clause about "for any reason or no reason" embodies this to some extent already.

Trust me, I was discriminated against IMHO for having long hair when I first applied to one engineering firm as a 20 year old rock band member. Made it much harder to be accepted inside a group of ex military fighter jocks.

But that was an NYSE firm.

Point being equal effort deserves equal pay. That's been one of my points all along.

But, just exactly who is the government to tell me who I can do business with or employ. What's the point in having a business if I can't run it my way, within the bounds of not injuring folks? Geez, I might as well just stay an employee if I can't start a business to get away from the things in the workplace I don't care for!

Additionally, by being white, under the current scheme I have less protection than blacks. I can't go to the EEOC when I get cut. After all, I'm a white male!

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Andy,
Not sure where exactly these oppressed women and blacks are.

Two levels of mangement above me are women. They answer to a black man. Likely an Affirmative Action type.

When it came time to fight back salary cuts, black manager rolled over a played dead.

I told him in no uncertain words that he was essentially a pimp and did nothing to represent me.

Ah... but I'm still here, he's making money off me. I bees, da ho, he bees da pimp and the clients bees da Johns.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Ok Andy fine,
I'm doing less well than the Jupiter Island white males back in my home town that lived in thier palatial mansions, like oh say the Bushes...What programs are out there for me?

I'm doing less well than the CEO of this company, what's out there for me?

I'm doing less well than my parents generation, despite a higher educational level... where' my program?

I'm doing less well that Blacks that got into Harvard on lower SAT scores... where's my program?

"Oh but I'm a white male!"

Sincerely,
AA

[MMMMMM]

"By targeting members of a group that do, as a group, less well than others, you do indeed help more needy individuals as a result."

Yes you do, but not as many more as you would help if you were to target the help to those who individually need it.

Why choose a shotgun approach over a rifle approach? Makes no sense at all to me.

[lil']

The funny thing about this thread is that we have several posters saying racism is mostly a thing of the past. Meanwhile, there are about 20 posts from AA in the same thread showing us that racism is alive and well.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
Additionally, by being white, under the current scheme I have less protection than blacks. I can't go to the EEOC when I get cut. After all, I'm a white male!

[/ QUOTE ]

You have no idea what you're talking about. You seem to just spew the "poor white man" line over and over again. If you are discriminated against because of your race you have as much protection anyone else who is discriminated against because of their race.

[ QUOTE ]
Trust me, I was discriminated against IMHO for having long hair

[/ QUOTE ]

You really don't see an important distinction between being "discriminated" against for having long hair and being discriminated against for the color of your skin???

[elwoodblues]

I'm fine with you avoiding any group that you want. However, when you open a business and thereby enter the stream of commerce you open yourself up to regulation by the state.

[ QUOTE ]
If the statistics bear out that a group is more prone to voilent acts... exactly what's irrational about avoiding that group?

[/ QUOTE ]

What is irrational about that is that just because a group is "more prone" to violence (assuming that's true) does not mean that the group is prone to violence. Let me demonstrate with numbers:

Assume that 1% of all white males commit a violent crime.
Assume that 1.2% of all white males between the ages of 18-24 commit a violent crime.
White males between 18-24 are "more prone to violent acts" therefore it must be rational to avoid that group.

Absolutely absurd.

[Homer]

You really don't see an important distinction between being "discriminated" against for having long hair and being discriminated against for the color of your skin???

I don't see the distinction. Both are forms of discrimination of equal magnitude.

Are you saying that it is less bad to discriminate against someone because they have long hair?

-- Homer

[brad]

im almost sure the gay lobby would agree that long hair/black/gay/etc. are not reasons to discriminate.

[elwoodblues]

Discriminating against someone because of an accident of birth (i.e. something for which they have no control) is far worse than discriminating against someone because of they way they choose to style their hair.

I am reminded of watching bad daytime talk shows where they would parade people who dress like "freaks" or who had tons of tatoos or whatever. Their comments would often go something like this:

Comment: "I'm sick of people judging me based on how I choose to dress"
Question: "Why do you dress that way?"
Answer: "This is how I express who I am."

Okay...so you don't want people to judge you based on how you express your personality --- to me, that seems like a perfectly acceptable area on which to judge someone. You can't wear a TShirt to a job interview that says "F*** You" and then claim discrimination when they don't hire you.

[Homer]

I don't agree. Discriminating against someone because he has long hair and discriminating against someone because he is black seems the same to me. In both judgements are being made against you based on the way you look, based on stereotypes. I understand that you can't change being black while you can change the length of your hair, but why should you have to? Those who discriminate based on the length of ones hair are the ones who need to change. People who have long hair shouldn't be forced to cut it to get a fair shake.

-- Homer

[elwoodblues]

Where do you draw the line?

Long Hair - no discrimination
Pink Hair?
Mohawk?
Woman with Shaved head?
Woman with shaved head and tatoo on forehead?
Woman with shaved head and tatoo on forehead of swastika?
Man who wears T Shirt to interview?
Woman who clearly needs to but doesn't wear bra to interview?


I tend to draw the line at things that you cannot change (race, gender, sexuality --- this one is arguable but I come down on the side of genetic pre-disposition).

~elwood

[elwoodblues]

I should add that even though you choose your religion, I would say that you can't discriminate based on that either (due to the history of discrimination based on religion)

~elwood

[brad]

los angeles i think just passed a law that you cant discriminate against cross dressers. im totally serious. (city or county i dont know. maybe it was all of CA i dont know)

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Elwood,
Your numbers are not representative.

The AIDS rate among blacks is 800% higher. The violent Crime rate 600% higher. Out of wedlock birth rate hovers around 70%

That's a sketch of a violent, sexually indiscriminate and irresponsible group in my eyes.

My point about commerce is, The gov't shouldn't regulate me in this area. So this is an area where "my" representatives are not representing me. And I say it. That's a first ammendment right, correct?

Go to http://www.bestplaces.net/html/citycompare.asp and pick out some cities and check out the crime rates. There's a clear inverse relationship of percentage white to crime rates.

The data's there for all who care to look.

The issues are:

1. What can be done about it?
2. The gov't shouldn't force choices on me I don't want. My taxes pay for gov't. Therefore the gov't should provide me services... not limitation and forced mandates and quotas.

Sincerely,
AA

[brad]

'The violent Crime rate 600% higher.'

im almost positive that black violent crime rate is much more than 6 times higher than white violent crime rate. off the top of my head i think i remember reading like 30x. perhaps six times more crime but blacks are 1/5th population or something.

i remember reading that like 1/3 of black males under 30 are in the criminal justice system, ex-con, in jail/prison, or on probation. i think its 1/3, maybe 30%. i dont know. but its a lot. i mean say you take the bus in any big city downtown and you see a young black man or a pair or group. if you think about it its pretty weird and scary from a statistical point of view.

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Elwood
A quote of yours below. No I don't see a difference. It was discrimination based on a trait. And it was considered quite OK at that time in corp. USA. Sucked, but it went on anyway.

But that was a top 20 Fortune 500. So I feel it was wrong there due to the public nature of securities markets and that they took collective gov't money. I.e, even some of *my* tax money.

If it had been a privately held company, well then it should be up to the owner.

Something all of you seem to miss. Discrimination is a survival trait. Deciding what is good or bad for one's self is at the heart of existance and survival. It's probably even genetic.

Sincerely,
AA



You really don't see an important distinction between being "discriminated" against for having long hair and being discriminated against for the color of your skin???

[AmericanAirlines]

I was just pointing out that I've been discriminated against as well. That's all.

I know how the blacks must feel. After all, I spent a good but of my life as a working class person in a place where many were rich.

I was definitely excluded.

Conclusion: Being rich and good looking beats poor and average any day!

:-)

Problem, the "system" isn't really set up to make class change a reality for most. It's allowed. But the deck is stacked.

Anyway, point is discrimation happens on many levels and is likely even genetically built in a some sort of herd or survival instinct.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Yes Lil,
It is... and the trend today is anti-white.

I'm trying to point this out so that those of us who are white don't let it go beyond equality to role reversal.

But apparently there's either a lot of non-whites here, or some really brainwashed politically correct types here who cannot bring themselves to see the trends.

Strange since they are all poker players.

Sincerely,
AA

P.S. As I've pointed out elsewhere, I'd also be against white groups who would push thier ways on me.

I'm against anything that mandates what I must do without my consent wherein I did not get a direct vote, at the very least. And perhaps even then.

I'm fighting (figuratively) for person freedom and autonomy.

This is just one facet of that.

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Brad,
Truth is, I cut my hair a long time ago. But because a guy with a thining hairline looks crappy with long hair on the sides.

The long hair thing was my teens and 20's. It was what the musicians of the time were doing, and I did it or the ladies.

I agree, that one shouldn't be discriminated against on that basis.

But the pragmatic fact is that it runs business off. Now I wasn't customer facing, so it was in effect pointless.

But it did happen.

And I suspect that many of Andyfox's professed viewpoints are based in that simple fact. As a business owner, he's a salesman. He can't have controversy affecting his bottom line.

So while he might not discriminate against blacks (because that the current PC line to tow) I'll bet there are people he would pre-judge and not hire.

Heck, he might even refuse to hire a black that looks like a rapper.

Of course it's highly dependant on what his business is.

For example. No where on the Vegas strip can you have a beard and be a dealer. Except the Hard Rock. Where it's typical.

In any event, doesn't matter what the laws are, they'll just pick another "legitimate" reason to not hire the "he/she".

My bottom line on discrimination is simple though.

"Equal in the eyes of the law."

The law and gov't agencies should not be discriminating. Even in the form of Affirmative Action.

However, for our privately held business, homes, etc. I say it's up to the individual.

The distinction is that Privately Held Assets are personal. Gov't entities are group funded.

I'd also be against enforced segregation. Agrueing that the decision is up to each business or homeowner to pick for himself the mix of clients, acquaintences etc. But without the weight of quotas or other forced busing, if you will.

Sincerely,
AA

[adios]

"The funny thing about this thread is that we have several posters saying racism is mostly a thing of the past."

Saying that the USA has come a long way toward racial equality is very much different than saying racism is mostly a thing of the past.

[andyfox]

"while he might not discriminate against blacks (because that the current PC line to tow"

There are some people who don't do it because they think it's the wrong thing to do.

"I'll bet there are people he would pre-judge and not hire."

-Not because of their race or ethnicity.

I thought you were going away?

[Michael Davis]

You are making the same mistake that Hitler made in Mein Kampf when he discussed the mating habits of dogs.

-Mike

[Michael Davis]

I shook Bill Cosby's hand yesterday, now I have AIDS.

[Michael Davis]

If the man were dressed like Nelly, he should not be hired.

If he were dressed like Will Smith in Men in Black, that would be unjustifiable.

[Michael Davis]

No, you're not wrong here. The dominant culture is being broken down. The popularity of rap culture is disturbing.

Your reaction to a commingling of cultures is totally irrational, and your conclusion that anyone who does not react as you do is either "non-white" or "brainwashed" is ridiculous.

The English invented rock music. When this form was taken (and perhaps improved upon) by the Americans, it was not said that America was indulging in anti-Americanism.

-Mike

[bdypdx]

"No, you're not wrong here. The dominant culture is being broken down. The popularity of rap culture is disturbing."

The dominant culture is always being broken down. The dominant culture has no place left to go. In the 20's - 30's it was said that, "The popularity of jazz culture is disturbing." So, Ella Fitzgerald and Louie Armstrong and others... were relegated to second class accomodations...even though the "nice white folks" were lining up at the door. Figure that one.

"The English invented rock music. When this form was taken (and perhaps improved upon) by the Americans, it was not said that America was indulging in anti-Americanism."

Nope. Rock evolved out of blues and jazz. Black Americans invented both.

[Michael Davis]

I stand corrected, but we all know rock music didn't start until the Beatles...

-Mike

[elwoodblues]

I couldn't agree more!

[bdypdx]

You might want to go back to 1955 and consider Chuck Berry.

Or even Bill Haley's Comets in 1952.

Beatles came later.

[Michael Davis]

I thought by saying "I stand corrected" I was making it clear that I recognized the accuracy of your post.

My Beatles comment was a joke.

[bdypdx]

sorry...

shoulda read between the lines...

[AmericanAirlines]

Ah well Andy,
Your steadfast refusal to accept the statistics and desire to limit my personal freedom inspires me to keep trying.

:-)

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

I've heard Bill won't touch some door knobs... so it's unlikely you have AIDS.

:-)

Bill's probably correct that most door knobs are germ transmitters / collectors.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Micheal,
Never read Mien Kampf. So enlighten me.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

I don't think co-mingling of cultures is irrational for those who want to.

I think, forcing it on me with quotas and Affirmative Action when I'd prefer not to is unfair.

For what it's worth, I find many aspects of Asian culture interesting. So I think you misread my basic issue here.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

I tend to disagree that blacks invented rock.

It took the electric guitar for that.

Les Paul and Leo Fender were white.

The major, minor and all the other scales were christian church things.

And equal tempered tuning was Bach, whereas True Tempering was Pythagoras.

Africans invented drums! ;-)

Sincerely,
AA

[brad]

well blacks probably are an inferior race cause once a white man came (tarzan) he was 'king of the jungle'.

heh

(actually there is a lot of racism cause i think tarzan was a son of a nobleman, and everybody knows nobles and royals are better than everybody else)

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Brad,
I've never used the term "inferior" in any of my diatribes. That *is* the terminology of a *true* racist.
(Not saying you are a true racists though.)

Heck, the blacks are likely superior in the settings for which they are evolved.

Sincerely,
AA

[brad]

well the first part was just absurd (tarzan, come on heh)

but

second part really wasnt cause whole concept of nobility and royalty is totally racist or something cause it says some people are intrinsically better than others. (which is why they didnt want to breed with commoners, and look what that got them lol)

[Mat Sklansky]

please elaborate on these "settings for which they are evolved."

[brad]

actually i was reading something where blacks have more 'fast twitch' muscle fiber or something like that which gives them a slight edge in very very high level athletic competition or something like that i think they were talking about sprinting or something i dont remember exactly.

honestly though theres practical applications in medicine where some subgroups (eg, high fat eskimos vs. low fat africans) require slightly different medicine dosages.

as far as iq goes though, i honest think the average human iq is probably around 130 if you factor in brain damage from say vaccines (mercury has been confirmed duh others theyre still denying) and other environmental stuff as well as todays ridiculous educational system which dumbs people down to the average 100.

of course all this talk about race will be totally mooted as very soon people wont be able to resist genetically engineering themselves.

[rusty JEDI]

actually i was reading something where blacks have more 'fast twitch' muscle fiber or something like that which gives them a slight edge in very very high level athletic competition or something like that i think they were talking about sprinting or something i dont remember exactly.

At school there was an article we had to read discussing the insertion/origin of the calf muscles in black sprinters. It explained that due to this being on average higher up the leg in the black population they get better leverage.

[AmericanAirlines]

Royalty strikes me as a discrimination based on wealth and power, not race.

The Queen of England is English and Caucasian, right?

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Generally speaking, the climates and biospheres present on the African Continent.

You still see widely different body types among the tribes in Africa, even today.

I believe in general, the the conditions there fostered a more physically based struggle for survival and hence, on average, africans are more muscular, faster etc.

Compare this to Asiatic races that evolved in colder climes and have a different set of traits.

It's just simply natural selection at work.

On the other hand, the American blacks were subjected to subjective breeding along the lines of livestock. Since they were used for labor, it's no surprise that on average African Americans are better sports performers than all other races and it shows up in the percentage of africans in the NBA, NFL. etc.

But in hockey where a different body type is favored, you see few blacks.

The bottom line when it comes to a region becoming africanized though, is the reproductive habits of a given racial group.

The following link is to a Census Bureau report that states in no uncertain terms the black population is increasing at a greater rate than the average.

http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-5.pdf

See page 3.

Therefore, over time the will outpopulate the rest of us. Then by "white flight" or "anything but black flight" they will end up taking over.

See the history of the US Virgin Islands for historic proof.

I'm simply connecting the dots. Nothing intrinsically "racist" about these statement.

But, since it's an emotionally charged issue, most people can't see that.

Sincerely,
AA

P.S. Look at the map on Page 6. You'll see that the East Coast and the Deep south are currently the hightest densities. With Vegas, LA and Frisco coming in next. And of course Denver where Wellington Webb was in place for 12 years. And Seattle, etc.

Essentially, any place you'd want to be they are taking over and pushing the rest of us into the ice cold frozen rockies.

And therein is the problem I see. Where can someone go in the USA where it's warm year-round and not be subjected to Hip-Hop... that is if your not rich.

Clearly Hawaii and the Middle Coast of California are there. But can you afford it?

Well maybe *you* can, you're employed by family in a successful publishing biz. But most of us can't.

Take a look at my hometown area of South Florida. One person I know here in Colorado says, "Ya might as well saw it off and let it sink". He's willing to freeze his arse off most of the year to get out of it.

Seems perhaps Ray Zee is too as he's not in any of the poker metropolises anymore either.

Heck I even know cubans who left Miami "because of all the 'neeegors'".

Of course if you have the $$$ you can live on Jupiter or Palm Beach Island. But what good is it if the minute you exit the gate of your "oh so nice gated community" you're in Crack-Town (Riviera Beach in the Palm Beach Island case)?

[daryn]

i don't know.. i read your posts AA and i can find maybe a few random things here and there that sound like things i might be able to agree with.. maybe.

but when you saythings like, "they" are taking over places where "we" want to be.. i think you're way off.

[AmericanAirlines]

So how is it not true?

When blacks move in people say, "There goes the neighborhood" and move out before property values drop to much.

Very much like an "invasive species" running out the indiginous ones.

So, by "thier" very presence, all the rest of us just roll over and give them the physical space.

So to put it bluntly, a lot of people died in the past in wars against the Amer-indians to create the USA.

Now we're just going to succeed it to the reproductive rate of blacks?

Heck I know one white guy who feels the blacks should give him reparations since his ancestors fought for the North and died during the civil war.

Far fetched I know. But intersting point.

Anyways, most of the warm climate areas of the USA *are* already seeing this. Go look at this link to a Census Bureau document and look at the map on page 6. Also look at the paragraph heading on page 3 indicating the black population is growing faster than the average:

http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-5.pdf

It's simply factual. I'm only connecting the dots.

Sincerely,
AA

[daryn]

obviously reparations is the dumbest idea ever...

but i don't see blacks as invasive.. they're not f'ing termites, they are people. that's all i'm saying

[AmericanAirlines]

Ok. Perhaps a bad term. So how would *you* describe a group that by there very presence drives others out, and reproduces at a higher than average rate?

By the way, this may be one of those traits that is superior in blacks than whites from a natural selection view point.

And therefore, from a non-black persective survival perspective it's even threatening.

But then I could craft agruments in both directions.

If a group is "superior" to yours (in a survival sense) you ought to eradicate the threat. On the other hand, if they are inferior to you, you should eradicate the weakies from the gene pool, right?

Now don't take that too seriously. Just an illustration of George Carlin's joke about driving.... "People who drive slower than you... are idiots... People who drive faster than you are...*ssholes!"

Sincerely,
AA

[daryn]

i just don't see them posing any more or less threat to me than anyone else on the planet. you can hit me with numbers all you want, but they are just people like me. i'm thinking of moving to europe anyways

[AmericanAirlines]

Why Europe? Just curious.

Bye the way, would be interesting to see what the French think of this topic since they have a concentration of Africans in the South of France.

Somolians have been refugeeing in Italy as of late too.

Sincerely,
AA

[daryn]

i would go to italy just for a change of pace and to perfect my italian. i think one misses out on a lot just living in the same place for his/her whole life.

as i understand it the italians are upset with albanian immigration, as are the greeks..

[AmericanAirlines]

I have to admit ignorance on the albanian issue. Perhaps you can fill me in. I had bud who was albanian once. He never mentioned anything about the situation.

As an aside, I had a Czech once tell me that Jews were killing Czecks pre-WWII and he still side with "the final solution". Know if there's any truth to that?

I have to admit, I never heard it before.

Personally, I'd like to check out the Gold Coast of Australia for I'm too old to surf.

Sincerely,
AA

[daryn]

all i know about the albanian situation is from an italian newspaper article i read, and what i got from it was that the situation is similar to the U.S. situation with illegal immigrant mexicans.

[brad]

actually the house of windsor (they changed it to windsor) is all german.

so yeah caucasian.

but the thing is its predicated on the fact they are better than commoners. but it is a differentiation within a race.

btw, do you know the origin of the necessity of amatuer status in the olympics? the upper crust basically wanted the olympics for the leisure class only. as nobles dont have to work ...

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Brad,
Well, I'm definitely convinced that class discrimination exists between wealthy and poor. Having been a working class person on the social scene in the Palm Beaches, I'm sure *women* make the distinction.

The blacks seem to think they have a corner on the market where discrimination is concerned.

I continue to argue that it occurs along any discernable set of differences.

Sincerely,
AA

[adios]

Regarding discrimination:

"I continue to argue that it occurs along any discernable set of differences."

IMO there's a lot of truth in this statement.

[MMMMMM]

I think Albania may be the poorest country in Europe, and the general feeling of the nearby countries is that they don't want a bunch of low-life criminals moving into the neighborhood through illegal immigration. Or something like that.

[MMMMMM]

"Anyways, most of the warm climate areas of the USA *are* already seeing this. Go look at this link to a Census Bureau document and look at the map on page 6. Also look at the paragraph heading on page 3 indicating the black population is growing faster than the average:..."


AA, I think you may be onto something here. And have you noticed that blacks generally seem to get cold more easily than whites? So as long as you stick to truly Northern climes where it really stays cold much of the year, you should be able to meet your goal of avoiding them for the most part (except for a few big cities like Detroit and Chicago). How do the census figures compare for North Dakota, Maine and Alaska, I wonder?

[brad]

well i know howard stern always says, where do people expect the jews to go, the moon?

[MMMMMM]

I think the Northern woods is the most beautiful and has the freshest air. The cold is a small price to pay for all that.

[Michael Davis]

Your evolutionary arguments don't make sense here because we're all the same species. If only dark-skinned people are around, this does not signify the end of the human race, nor does it mean any particular gain or loss for humanity.

-Mike

[Michael Davis]

I didn't know Albanians were niggers.

White people are sugar and spice and everything nice.

[daryn]

whoa.. easy does it.

[MMMMMM]

Whoa what? I'm saying what I think is an objection of many citizens of nearby countries to Albanian illegal immigration. That doesn't mean I think that way myself--just that I think a lot of others do. I don't think Albanians are all scum or anything like that.

Also, Albanian organized crime tends to be a higher percentage of "street-type crime" compared to either the Russian or Italian mafias (Russian organized crime has a lot of hi-tech focus today--used to be a lot of cell phone cloning, more recently selling stolen credit card numbers in bulk on the internet; Italian mafia does a lot of semi-white-collar crime too; while Albanian organized crime isn't as evolved yet and thus their criminals are more likely to be into things like auto theft and other 'street' crimes).

[MMMMMM]

Daryn wrote: "as i understand it the italians are upset with albanian immigration, as are the greeks.."

M in response to Daryn : "I think Albania may be the poorest country in Europe, and the general feeling of the nearby countries is that they don't want a bunch of low-life criminals moving into the neighborhood through illegal immigration. Or something like that."

Michael Davis in response to M: "I didn't know Albanians were niggers."

Well neither did I, Michael, but a fair number of Europeans seem to view them that way. That's all I was saying.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
The blacks seem to think they have a corner on the market where discrimination is concerned

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you just make this stuff up??? What leads you to that conclusion? Just because a black individual might be more concerned about discrimination against blacks than, for example, women doesn't mean that they think they have a "corner on the market." That's just ridiculous.

[daryn]

i was saying "easy does it" in response to michael davis' post. we really don't need to use such hatespeak.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
Black Caucus - OK

White Caucus = KKK or Nazi

[/ QUOTE ]

It sounds to me like you are arguing for more political correctness when it comes to labelling you and less when it comes to labelling others.

[MMMMMM]

Ohhhh...thanks Daryn...also I hope you gathered that the stuff I wrote in another thread, about quarterstaff being superior to baseball or the pitcher-batter duel, was half in jest.

[Michael Davis]

While I admit I wasn't clear, so it is my fault, you completely misinterpreted my post.

My post played on the idea that Albanians were viewed as "low life criminals" in Europe. Since Albanians are white, this demonstrates that maybe, just maybe we have sociocultural considerations to work with.

I was merely saying that your description of a Eurropean account Albanians could be replaced in American Airlines speak by "niggers." American Airlines always confuses culture and race. My apologies. The post was not meant as an attack on you.

-Mike

[Michael Davis]

I used no hatespeak. You are welcome to petition that my post be deleted.

-Mike

[Prickly Pete]

[ QUOTE ]
Women make less money than men because each individual woman, on average, makes less, but also because, as a group, they are discriminated against in overt and subtle ways.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe I'm taking this the wrong way, but if you are saying the average woman should make as much as the average man, I believe that is naive. I think it's a fair assumption to say that the average man is more qualified (at this point in time) than the average woman.

If you are saying that the a woman on average should make the same as a man if they have the same qualifications, then I couldn't agree more.

As for the rest of AA's posts and everything else, I think it's pretty simple actually (and probably somewhat idealistic /images/graemlins/smirk.gif). Eliminate the "we", "they" etc. "We" are all human. Leave it at that. No quotas, no groups based on race, etc.

[daryn]

whatever

[AmericanAirlines]

Nope.

I'm pointing out a fact and arguing either:

a.) If there can't be a white caucus with White in the name then it's anti-white racism and the Black Caucus should be equally impermissible.

or

b.) If there's a Black Caucus then a White caucus is equally legitimate (but doesn't recieve fair treatment).

Thus I conclude the current trend in racism is Anti-White.

Further I stand on the idea of "equal in the eyes of the law for all races" and thus no race based handout programs should exist. The race question should simply not be on applications etc.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi MMMMMM,
Not sure but they are in that report.

Problem is, I'm a Florida native and patently hate cold weather. So where do *I* go? Perhaps Australia?

If watched South Florida go to the crack dealers in many areas that used to be safe. Very sad. Heck they've pulled a pile of Uzi's and Mac-10's off of kid in Palm Beach Gardens of all places.

But even here in the Denver Boulder area (about 2% black) you can't avoid them. The employers of any size all have quotas to meet and thus hire them from other regions, thus further fueling the above mentioned trends.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Brad,
I'm not against a Jewish or Palestinian Homeland for that matter.

Just seems they shouldn't be right next to each other.

Some cynics I know claim the USA *is* the Jewish Homeland.

Go to Century Village down in the Palm Beaches and you might believe it!

I often thought that Anthrax case at Sun Publishing near Boca was the S. Florida Palestinian group aiming at the Jewish folk that own it. (Had a friend who worked thier as well. Granted they published some real rags too.)

You see, for a period of time immigration quotas were increased for Mid-Eastern arab groups in S. Florida *if* the immigrants could start businesses and employ people. I.e. rich muslims were allowed in.

But given that Boca has a large Jewish contingent, seems a bit like fanning the flames to me.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

I tend to agree. But I do miss home. And I wouldn't miss chipping the car out in the mornings.

If I were wealthy enough not to have to work it would be just fine though.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

I'll have to agree to disagree. Homo Sapiens in different environments would tend to evolve differently.

Same is true for other species as well, as is documented.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

"White people are sugar and spice and everything nice. "

No that's not true either.

Just walk into any trading pit! LOL!

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Are you saying there's no correlation between race and culture at all.

Seems faulty at best to me.

Sincerely,
AA

P.S. I've not used the word nigger in my post to my recollection. "Nigga" on occasion. But generally as a barb directed at ebonics.

Racial slurs aren't the answer to anything.

[AmericanAirlines]

The key phrase was "seem to think". I wasn't saying they really do.

Quite the opposite.

The Blacks and perhaps the Jews seem to be the most outspoken about it.

I've seen many a "Jewish Holocaust Survivors" bus in the Palm Beaches... but never a "Polish Holocaust Survivors" bus... darn near as many Poles got it. Not to mention just plain old American soldiers in that conflict.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi Tom,
Somehow I believe it's linked to ancient tribal behavior really.

Sort of like, "Hey, what are those guys in that tribe doing eating our Elk!?!?... Let'd get 'em!"

Way over simplified, but you get the idea.

Sincerely,
AA

P.S. That doesn't mean that some cases don't make sense, and visca versa. Have to take each case on it's own merits.

[MMMMMM]

Well I've heard Australia is beautiful and that it has more women than men. However I don't think 2% sounds like something you really need to be worrying about.

[MMMMMM]

Apology accepted and I later thought maybe I was reading more into it than you intended. Maybe I could brush up on Reading Comprehension Month myself, though the tone did make me think it was more like an attack than not. Anyway no problem and no hard feelings.

[Michael Davis]

Words are only signifiers of concepts, and what I understand of the concept behind "nigger" is exactly the type of attitude you exemplify in your posts. I have included "nigger" in my posts to help clarify what you said.

I'd bet that you use the word in conversation, although I think there's enough of a chance that you don't that I wouldn't bet my entire bankroll on it.

I am amazed at your coolness and steadfast defense of your position in the face of both real argument and ad hominem attacks. For whatever it's worth, I commend you for not getting rattled. I'm also disturbed that you are unwavering.

Mike

[Michael Davis]

I know a drug dealer he is black.

I have to work with a black man.

I have to work with a drug dealer.

Please recognize that not wanting to live by or work with drug dealers is commendable, but not wanting to live by or work with black people is nonsensical. They are not one and the same.

-Mike

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
The Blacks and perhaps the Jews seem to be the most outspoken about it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe they're the most outspoken against because they are (historically and probably currently) the most discriminated against.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
The employers of any size all have quotas to meet and thus hire them from other regions

[/ QUOTE ]

Where do you get this information?? Do you have any information to back this up because I often hear people make claims like this, but when pressed they have nothing to back it up.

Just because a black man has a job doesn't mean that he got it because of a quota or other form of affirmative action...that belief is, in my mind, the worst part of affirmative action (that many people assume that black students or black individuals in a job got the job because they are black).

~elwood

[MMMMMM]

Somehow I don't think living in an area that is 2% black should be much of a problem, even for you. As I said in another post, while I support your right to try to insulate yourself if you wish, I also think you are taking things too far. If you are truly looking to live in an area with 0% black population I suspect your choices may be extremely limited (and very cold).

[AmericanAirlines]

Guess there's no argument there.

But we still haven't answered "Why?".

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi MMMMM,
In one of your posts you suggested that some of the northern locations would be good.

This is *exactly* how blacks will run everyone out.

When they move in, the rest leave. Because we are not allowed to say, "We don't want to give this area up".

If you do say that, despite all the statistics about the correlation between black population and the decline of an area, you are judged a racist, rather than someone reacting to clearly documented facts.

So your only choice is to leave. As I said before, this is pretty much how invasive species work, and is many many species of life from Africa seem to do this. It's just an artifact of jungle conditions and natural selection.

To me, if I say I want to be separate from... then 0% is the only consistent value. Anything above 0% is not complete and consistent.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

I don't have time to dig it up at the moment, but many gov't contract programs require a percentage of minority "representation".

I'm sure if you dig around on the web you'll find evidence.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

It may be non-sensical to you. But to me it's a quality of life issue.

I prefer not to work with them, or even purchase products manufactured and handled by them.

For example, I refuse to wear cloths made in Dominical Republic, which is getting harder to avoid all the time thanks to the Carribean Economic Recovery Act, thank you G. W. Bush.

Next it'll be African Textiles. See the AGOA act.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Sure it is MMMMM,
It's enough that I can't find a grocery store where my goods aren't handled by them.

It's enough that they can't be avoided on the job.

But that's just me.

Some very rich folks are just fine having them work right in thier mansions.

Sincerely,
AA

P.S. For what it's worth, I'd not hold it against blacks to feel the same way about whites. I don't see this as one directional.

And I don't hold it against Arabs and Jews that they don't care for each other.

What I hold against them is that they continue to kill over it rather than just decide to separate and be done with it.

The essential solution is to have a place for everyone and all points of view.

[AmericanAirlines]

I considered Alaska at one time. About the same time I lived in Vegas actually.

But look at the stats on some of the cities.

I suspect one day the Native Americans won't be so much pissed that Europeans came over here and built the USA so much as we gave it to the Africans.

Fairbanks 14.5%
Anchorage 7.1%

So Cold is no gaurantee.

Trust me, I've looked pretty hard.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

http://www.adversity.net/fed_stats/fednews_energy.htm

"In order to make room for meeting federal hiring quotas for minorities, dozens of highly qualified white male engineers, scientists and other career employees were transferred to a "white male dinosaur" office with the euphemistic official title "Safety and Technical Services Division (STS)". There they received few or even no work assignments for years on end. Argonne’s hope was that the "dinosaurs" would quit or retire. According to the Chicago Sun-Times, one manager even made it a habit to stop by the "dinosaur" office periodically to say "'When are you going to retire, old fellow?' or, 'What are you still doing around here?' "

How about percentage goals for minority sub-contractors:

http://www.nmsdcus.org/infocenter/articles%20for%20facts%20and%20faqs/Legislation%20Affecting%20Minority%20Purchasing.ht m

Here's an example in a lab:

I do believe at one time the Judiciary imposed quotas on Police departments as well.

And how about American Indian Casinos. How's that for discrimination against the general American Population?

In any event, I believe the term "quota" as been replaced with the PC term, "Placement Goals".

Sincerely,
AA

[bdypdx]

[ QUOTE ]
As I said before, this is pretty much how invasive species work, and is many many species of life from Africa seem to do this. It's just an artifact of jungle conditions and natural selection.

[/ QUOTE ]

Invasive species?

- For one, homo sapiens is a single species. Your argument doesn't work here regarding "invasive species". Europeans invaded Africa, Asia and North/South America. Africans did NOT invade North America, they were brought here as SLAVES. I guess it's just like some nasty walking catfish invading our lakes?

- "Settings" as you put it, are found elsewhere. India has jungles, deserts, mountains, coasts, etc. Eurasia has deserts, mountains, coasts, etc. Same with N &amp; S America. Same "settings" exist(ed) in Africa. I guess the only "setting" Africans lack is polar. I venture to guess that if plate tectonics had extended Africa a bit, we would have "Afreskimos".

In a previous post I equated you with KKK and Nazis. Sorry about that. But your opinions do seem to dovetail with those opinions quite nicely; so what am I to think? Go figure?

Honestly, I don't give a damn if my neighbors are black, white, asian, or whatever...

Go live in a compound if you want to.

[bdypdx]

Black, white, jew, arab, asian, polish, albanian, etc..., name it....

...seem to do quite nicely with the American middle class lifesyle....

I guess they've adapted to the "setting"?

[AmericanAirlines]

This is *exactly* the problem... *I'm* supposed to move.

The founding fathers set the precedent that you could be free right where you stand. So why should I have to move?

Yes africans are homo-sapiens. Sorry if I didn't say, "It's a parallel to invasive species".

Almost all invasive species that biologists talk about *were* in fact, transplanted. For example, some molusks on the California coast ended up there by being in ballast released from ships.

Yes the africans were brought over as slaves. *That* *was* the mistake.

Yes, Europeans would be the invasive race to Amer-indians, I agree.

But... The Europeans and european culture resulted in the last standing "Super Power". So what, are we now supposed to succeed that to afro-crap and end up like the African Continent.

I say repatriation is the answer, and maybe *you* should be in a compound if you can't connect the dots of the trends that are now forming up.

You sit there an talk about tolerance, etc. Yet anything that doesn't dovetail with your theories... like accepted statistics, is intolerable.

Sincerely,
AA

P.S. I'd fight for a Klan Free and Nazi free USA. My thoughts on this aren't confined to just the subject of the thread.

Any group that would attempt to push thier way on me is suspect. Don't really care who they are.

[AmericanAirlines]

Perhaps not. As the afro crime rates indicate.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
The founding fathers set the precedent that you could be free right where you stand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Following this precedent, African Americans, or any other group are free right where they stand as well. Your option is to exercise the other right that is sewn throughout the constitution, the right to free travel among the several states. Find the whitest state you can and move there.

[AmericanAirlines]

I'm pretty much there already.

Problem is, what if I want to live where it's *warm* and white? As I point out below... even Maine is starting to feel the effects.

So. Fla. is over run, so are the major CA. cities. Same for the whole deep south for obvious historical reasons.

I just don't see the problem that if some folks would like to architect thier own communities, where the problem is?

Especially since it seems to be OK for there to be a Jewish homeland, and organizations everywhere that have "black" in the title.

I continue to stand on the observation that the current trend is anti-white.

As an aside the founding fathers were also White men with guns and slaves.

Remember the 3/5ths rule?

If you eventually want the USA to be a western district of Liberia, keep thinking like you are. The Carribean already is.

Just connect the dots and go look at the census reports:

http://www.census.gov/prod/2001pubs/c2kbr01-5.pdf

See text on Page 3, "The Black population increased faster than the total population between 1990 and 2000."

And the map on page 6.

Maybe *you* want to help the africanization of America. But I don't.

Geez, read the data and make an educated poker read of where the future is going.

Actiually Africans don't like to be where they are the majority either.

Here's a link to an article about the Somalis that moved to Maine:

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/Somali_influx020921.html

Here's an interesting quote about how they didn't want to be in Atlanta... a *Black Majority* city:

"Many initially settled in the Atlanta area. However, city life was not what the Somalis were accustomed to back in their homeland. The crime rate was high..."

And here's a quote about reasons they went there:

"Atlanta is a big city. It's not good for kids," said Nimo Muhammed, a Somali who moved to Lewiston six months ago. She said she moved there with her eight children in search for a better life.

Although Lewiston offers Muhammed a cheaper lifestyle, she, like most Somali immigrants, is still grappling to find a job. Three out of four refugees typically apply to the city for welfare when they arrive, and many admit Maine's generous benefits are part of what attracted them to the area.

And how did they pick Maine???

"So, Somali adults researched on the Internet safe places to live in the United States. Tey learned that in Lewiston-Auburn, the last time a police officer was killed in the line of duty was in 1859, Ali said."

And what was the demographic of Lewiston-Auburn before the Somalis???

"Lewiston, population 36,000, is a predominantly white town about 25 miles southwest of Augusta, Maine's capital.

Conclusion: Even the blacks want to move from a predominanlty black place to a white one.

What more do you have to know???

Sincerely,
AA

P.S. Another interesting quote. The Mayor of Lewiston speaking:

In his three-page letter last week, Raymond wrote that the city of 36,000 has absorbed more than 1,000 Somalis in 18
months, and cannot absorb more newcomers "without negative results for all."

"Our city is maxed-out financially, physically and emotionally," he wrote.

City officials estimate that about half of the 412 Somali adults living in Lewiston have found work, but some are receiving public assistance.

General assistance spending in Maine's second-largest city has more than doubled during the past 12 months, and more than half of the $528,000 budget is expected to go to Somalis, officials said.

Now before you say the Mayor is a bigot... know this:

What the city and residents say, according to AP:

"Raymond says he is far from racist, pointing out the fact that he has two adopted Black grandchildren ."

So I think this guy knows the issues from all sides.

[Michael Davis]

I don't understand your argument. The thread began with you criticizing the Black Caucus for not adhering to the ideal of a colorblind society. Then, you declare that you want to live some place white.

Cause and effect can be very muddy, but haven't you considered that perhaps the existence of the Black Caucus is an effect of the behavior of people such as yourself?

There are bones to pick with the Black Caucus, and I will not say that in individual cases a misunderstanding of their reason for existence can lead to the beliefs you espouse. I have strong doubts about whether this is the case with you or anyone, though.

Legitimate or illegitimate gripes with the Black Caucus, rap music, or blacks on television do not justify racism. They are used, however, as justifications for something that was already there.

-Mike

[AmericanAirlines]

I wouldn't say I have an "argument" but rather some observations:

1. The blacks (and perhaps jews as well) scream racism all the time. And yet they are some of the biggest racists going. Proof of the point is all the organizations with thier name in it. If *they* want a color blind society... then *they* should practice what they preach. Thus I critisize the Black Caucus for being guilty of thier own sin.

I never said I was colorblind, nor wanted to be so.

The caucaus of blacks down in FLA is upsetting me because that area is my home town and myself and many others had to leave in the 90's as decent employment left the area. Now Scripps is wanting to move in... and the caucus is stupidly raising cain. Geez, get the money in first... dicker around later.


2. Because it is acceptable for non-white groups to band together and put the "Black" or whatever in the title... but it's not acceptable for *whites* to do so.... the tide of racism has become anti-white. And apparently is this is acceptable.

Either it's acceptable for all races to have "Race-name Caucus"... or it's acceptable for no one. There's no rational middle ground.

3. A group with white in the title will always be correlated to Nazi's, KKK, and White Supremecists. However, not all of us that would prefer to live amongst our own have such ideologies. As for me I'm just Afro-averse for the most part. And as one famous lawyer said, "You can't argue a man into liking a glass of beer..." I even try to avoid product that absolutely have to have been made my afro's. For example Dockers slacks made in the Carribean. For me, if I wouldn't want to sleep with people from a group, why would I want materials they've been handling. So even diamonds from the African continent aren't really acceptable to me. It's just a matter of being consistent down to the last detail.

There are other groups I'm averse to as well that have nothing to do with afro-proliferation. Like Neo Nazis. But they aren't going to outpopulate and overrun things biologically. So at the minute, nothing to worry about. But bottom line, any aggressive group that is going to over run and refuse me the right (perhaps priviledge) of living my own way, is suspect with me. And in parallel to the diamonds, I own a Nazi Era P-38. Bought before I thought about such things in detail and was a collector. It's a 1941 AC Model(Carl Walther factory). Chances are good it was involved in the death camps etc. I don't use it anymore.

Anyways, burning crosses piss me off as much as gangsta rap crap.

By the same token, I'm quite comfortable with the Asian, Pacific Island, Eskimo groups et. al. So I don't feel I'm a racist per se. And my conclusions about things Afro came after many years of sounding more like AndyFox. But my experience (as well as many stats) with things afro indicate that it's unrealistic to believe as AndyFox does.

But, I wish no one any harm. So I suspect you could call me a separatist or isolationist to some extent. However, one thing that sticks in my craw is that the afro's move in and everyone else just says "Oh there goes the neighborhood" and leaves.

And Political Correctness dictates that you can't make a stand. This is somewhat disturbing to me, as eventually, as the census data I've cited foreshadows... we will be essentially a western district of Africa.

So for me that means my whole home region in the Palm Beaches is now so "infested" (for lack of better term). It's literally uncomfortable to live there.

The only places that are warm and afro-free are affordable only by the richy riches. And the "system" is such that getting rich and changing classes is permitted... but, seriously, try to achieve it coming from a working class background.

Anyways, there you have it. Need some sleep.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

[ QUOTE ]
Legitimate or illegitimate gripes with the Black Caucus, rap music, or blacks on television do not justify racism. They are used, however, as justifications for something that was already there.


[/ QUOTE ]


Perhaps not, but AIDS, and Violent Crime seem to justify wanting an "arms distance" relationship.

I'm not advocating aggressive actions. Just the right to say "Hey, we don't want it here in our community.

Sincerely,
AA

[Rushmore]

Now, recognize that you will NEVER get a consensus that you are being reasonable. Understand it, and reformulate your approach.

Be a realist.

[Michael Davis]

Does your community exclude rap music, or blacks?

Does your community outlaw violence, or blacks?

Does your community exclude a, or b? Not a, or a.

-Mike

[MMMMMM]

AmericanAirlines: "...I even try to avoid product that absolutely have to have been made my afro's. For example Dockers slacks made in the Carribean. For me, if I wouldn't want to sleep with people from a group, why would I want materials they've been handling. So even diamonds from the African continent aren't really acceptable to me. It's just a matter of being consistent down to the last detail."

Well there's one thing you can't escape that is a lot more important than whether something has been handled by Blacks. You are breathing the same air molecules that they have breathed. In fact, I read in a statistics textbook that if you take a deep breath, the chances are over 99% that you will inhale at least one of the air molecules breathed by Julius Caesar in his dying breath. So you can't escape breathing what has passed through their lungs, and given this fact, I think your position on not wanting to buy things handled by them doesn't seem to make a great deal of sense. The kind of consistency you desire happens to be unattainable, even, probably, for the richest person in the world.

[elwoodblues]

[ QUOTE ]
but AIDS, and Violent Crime seem to justify wanting an "arms distance" relationship

[/ QUOTE ]

AIDS would be more a d*ck's distance. I'd be really impressed if this were the same as an arm's distance.

[AmericanAirlines]

Yeah, I've definitely thought it out to that level. I spent quite a bit of time at a semi-conductor plant trying to figure out how to make contaminant free silcon wafers. Very difficult to say the least.

But I'll go for the best level I can get.

Particles are important though.

Consider the difference between H (hydrogen) C (chlorine) and N (nitrogen) as separate elements.

Two out of three are inocuous... but HCN as a combination is cyanide.

Composition and structure do change the nature of things.

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Hi MD,
In my space, and the personal space of others, we should all be free to exclude whatever we wish. If a bunch of like minded people want a community a certain way, what's the problem?

Why are you and others so intent on forcing "diversity" on *everyone* whether they like it or not?

Sort of Reverse-Nazism, isn't it?

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Ah but being an idealist isn't neccesarily about being a realist is it?

And therein lies the problem. As a species and as a world we refuse to shoot for the ideal.

As a result, even at this late date, the world sux and we are ruining the planet.

Sincerely,
AA

P.S. I don't really care if everyone does or does not feel as I do about the african issue.

I only really want concensus that it's the right of individuals to choose for themselves and no one, not even the gov't should be forcing a choice on us.