Wal-Mart

[andyfox]

Just reading a trade paper here at work, and it says that by fiscal 2007, Wal-Mart will have 4,600,000 associates. An associate usually means a salesperson/clerk in the stores. But even assuming this is total employees, does this strike you guys as an astounding a number as it does me? I mean, Los Angeles is the 2nd biggest cith in the United States and we don't have 4,600,000 people living in the city.

Wal-Mart's growth target each year is the equivalent of the size of Sears, the second biggest retailer. Amazing.

[Zeno]

I think we need to export Wal-Mart to rebuild Iraq. It is one of the grandest capitalist monsters to come down the pike since Standard Oil.

If we can Wal-Mart-ize Iraq, even Saddam would shop there, hell - we could put in a small side isle for WMD.

The number seems exaggerated or inflated to me but I assume that you are reading a reputable trade magazine so the report must be reasonable. The number may hinge on how they interpert the meaning of the term "assoicate" as you hinted at.

-Zeno

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

But the question is how many FTEs will those employees add up to. Wal-Mart is know for using primarily part-timers.

[brad]

maybe they r counting their slave labor in china.

p.s. im serious about the slave labor, companies are known to 'own' slave labor camps in china.

[blueboles]

which companies?

[ChipWrecked]

C'mon, why would Wal-Mart need slaves in China? They don't manufacture the crap they sell. They have a built-in domestic slave-labor pool, called "high school kids".

They just want to be the Micro$oft of retailing, is that so wrong?

"We'll tell you what you're going to buy today."

-Chip_rack
(former 'associate' at Wal-Mart store #11) /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[brad]

just first thing that popped up.

'It found that prominent U.S. companies are paying slave wages or no wages to workers manufacturing products in China to be sold in the United States. The companies include Nike, Wal-Mart, Timberland, New Balance and Huffy.'

note the 'no wages' part.

i hope a US congressman is a good off the cuff source. but ive read/heard of companies owning actual slave labor camps,kinda like dachau except they feed them enough so they dont starve to death. feel free to research and post more.

-----------------------------------------------------

http://www.house.gov/schakowsky/press2000/pr5_11_2000china.html

MAY 11, 2000

SCHAKOWSKY – “AMERICAN PEOPLE NEED TO KNOW TRUTH ABOUT U.S. COMPANIES USING SLAVE LABOR IN CHINA”
JOINS REPRESENTATIVE BROWN, BONIOR AND OTHERS IN CALLING
FOR INVESTIGATION OF CORPORATIONS NAMED IN SLAVE LABOR REPORT


WASHINGTON, D.C. – U.S. Representative Jan Schakowsky (D-IL) today joined her colleagues in calling for a federal investigation of U.S. corporations that import goods manufactured by slave labor in China. Schakowsky, Representatives Sherrod Brown (D-OH), David Bonior (D-MI), Nancy Pelosi (D-CA) and others made their demand following the release of a report showing widespread labor abuses by major U.S. companies doing business in China.
The report entitled Made in China: The Role of U.S. Companies in Denying Human and Worker Rights was prepared by the National Labor Committee. It found that prominent U.S. companies are paying slave wages or no wages to workers manufacturing products in China to be sold in the United States. The companies include Nike, Wal-Mart, Timberland, New Balance and Huffy.

Below is Schakowsky’s statement.

“American companies claim that they wish to spread democracy and labor rights in China. They say that they will lead by example. But the facts belie that assertion. The truth is Wal-Mart is paying Chinese workers 2 cents an hour to make Kathie Lee Gifford handbags. Chinese footwear workers, who are making Nike, Reebok, and other shoes, get paid 3% of what U.S. workers make.

“Just because these companies operate in China, they should not be given a free pass when it comes worker rights. That is why anything less than a full investigation by the federal government into these violations would be unacceptable.

“The American people have a right to know the truth about U.S. companies using Chinese slave labor. The American people have a right to know that for a few cents an hour, 16 year-old Chinese girls, working for a U.S. shoe company, are applying toxic glue with their bare hands. They have a right to know that working 14-hour days, seven days a week, while surrounded by barred windows and barbed wire fence, is the norm for Chinese slave laborers. And the American people have a right to know that young workers are forced lie to inspectors about working conditions, because if they complain or tell the truth, their lives would be made even worse.

“We can’t look the other way when we have solid proof that companies are trampling on workers’ rights in the name of the all-mighty dollar. No human being should be forced to work in these conditions, no company should be allowed to abuse its labor force, and no country should be rewarded for exploiting its people.”

[AmericanAirlines]

More proof positive the our economic elite don't believe in
the ideals that are professed.

Ain't life grand?

Someday you folks are going to catch up to my cynicism.

Sincerely,
AA

[brad]

cyniciscm? i thought u were just being honest. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[andyfox]

My company manufactures in China. The factories we use are regularly inspected by employees of the big companies we sell to (we don't sell to Wal-Mart, but we do sell to J.C. Penney and to Federated Dept. Stores, two of the biggest 6 or 7 in the world). They rigorously check working conditions and paperwork. Labor is so cheap that there's no real incentive to violate laws and get in trouble with the government.

[andyfox]

"ive read/heard of companies owning actual slave labor camps,kinda like dachau except they feed them enough so they dont starve to death."

There's a difference between "widespread labor abuse" and concentration camps. There's a difference between paying low wage rates and slavery.

When we first started doing business in Southeast China, the going rate for labor was about $1/day for 10 hour work days. Now the rate is about $3/day. These rates include room and board. Just about every worker (most of them women) save almost 100% of their money and send it home. (Most of the workers have migrated from other areas of China where unemployment is high.) Their lodgings are dormitory style, certainly not luxurious. When there are a few dozen job opening, thousands of people show up at the train station and at the factory gates looking for work. The standard of living for the people in Southeast China has risen dramatically, in fact, more dramatically than for any people in history.

There have been numerous scholarly studies of the effect of this South China "miracle." While there are certainly abuses, as there are here at home, and whie some of the effects of the influx of industrialization and capitalism are detrimental, as they were here at home when we industrialized, the overall benefits have been remarkable.

As for "barred windows" and "barbed wire fence," our factory here in Los Angeles has those. The inspectors from the big companies we sell to show up without warning (as they do at our L.A. factory), so they see working conditions as they are.

I realize our factories are quite small and maybe factories being used by Nike et al do indeed have serious abuses. But most of the factories in the industrialized areas of Southeast China are quite small.

What became of the fullscale investigations these congresspeople demanded?

[brad]

well 2 b honest same thing could be said of US, but US prisoners work only in some fields, tho that is changing.

also wackenhut could be said to own slaves i guess, but really hardly any manufacturing.

didnt mean allchinese workers, also.

[AmericanAirlines]

Well Brad,
I general I believe I'm being honest. But most folks raised on a diet of Political Correctness and Dale Carnegie, Norm Vincent Peale, and perhaps Prozac would consider me to be a Pessimist at best and a cynic at worst.

So what the hay?

As I say, "The glass isn't half full nor half empty... it's 50% occupied by water and 50% occupied by air."

:-)


By the way, anyone catch the news this a.m. about Wal-Mart employing illegal immigrants, etc.

No doubt about it. Capitalism believes a good economy is based on cheap labor... proof positive once again.

We all say "life is more important than money" but when you look at what goes on, one has to wonder if we mean it?

Sincerely,
AA

[AmericanAirlines]

Yeah, I guess most of us are wage-slaves.

:-)

But to be honest, better a wage slave here than there. We just need to be sure that it stays that way or gets better, not worse.

Sincerely,
AA

[brad]

well in that post i meant actual prisoners working for corporations.

for example i heard that almost all furniture (made in USA) depends on prison labor. (10 cents an hour)

[brad]

well on illegal immigration i could solve it in 1 year tops theyd all be out of the country., all 30-40 million.

bounties. (not that you would have to physically get them, just inform authorities). ok snitch lines are bad but in this case i think its ok, when u walk into a pizza place and the manager is busy you ask someone else and they say 'no habla englis'. ok.

[trillig]

I don't see that happening, except that maybe we will only have Wal Mart to work at, in the USA in 2007, the way things are going!

-t

[Moyer]

The numbers do seem like a bit much, but just the other day some friends and I were joking about how Super Wal-Marts will take over the world.

Last year I lived in an apartment by myself for nine months while going to school. Super Wal-Mart was really the only store I ever went to in the time I lived there. Other than that, it was school, restaurants, and the barber. I bought all my food there, school supplies, DVDs, and even gas at the Wal-Mart gas station. It's almost freaky, but incredibly convenient.

[elwoodblues]

You could try to get rid of all the illegal immigrants, but that would kill our economy.

As for Wal Mart employing illegal immigrants, I thought that they worked for a third-party and Wal Mart hired the third-party to clean their stores.

~elwood

[brad]

'You could try to get rid of all the illegal immigrants, but that would kill our economy.'

sure whatever. total propaganda.

btw, i lived in phoenix and routinely walked into say a peter piper pizza place (im white) and would have the guy taking my order 'no habla englis' , he couldnt speak english, obviously an illegal alien. also you can tell sometimes by their mexican dental work. (im being serious)

[elwoodblues]

Wow, someone who looks Mexican and doesn't speak English is "obviously and illegal alien." How do you know he isn't a legal immigrant? How do you know he is an immigrant at all?

Regarding my propaganda about getting rid of illegal immigrants and how it would affect our economy:
How much do you think produce would cost if we paid workers minimum wage?
How much do you think hotel rooms would cost?
Food at a restaurant?
Construction projects?

Not only are these industries that are known to hire large numbers of undocumented workers, they are also industries that are/would be ripe to unionize. So now, you aren't paying less than minimum wage or even minimum wage for someone to pick lettuce, you are paying union wages with benefits. The other problem is that you would have a hard time filling most of these jobs...who is going to take them? Most people feel that they are too good for the lowly jobs that we have immigrants do.

Finally, how much of a drain on our economy do you think it would be to actually try to enforce your policy of getting rid of all the illegal immigrants? You are either going to have to hire a ton of new immigration officers or place a huge burden on industry to foot the bill of enforcement. Sounds like a great plan to me.

~elwood

[brad]

no my point is if i looked mexican i wouldnt mind being spoken to in spanish. especially if he switched to english if i didnt know it.

but not knowing english for an adult male is pretty wierd , espcially in a customer service job outside of 'little mexico' in whatever city. (btw manager or guy who was probably usually at register was doing something else , but still.)

---------

so you think its good for US economy if everyone is on slave wages? (you think its good for it to import low wage jobs)

[MMMMMM]

"You could try to get rid of all the illegal immigrants, but that would kill our economy."

Hmmm, maybe, but was our economy "killed" before we acquired so many illegal immigrants?

[brad]

or if its so good, why not legalize massive immigration?

[elwoodblues]

I didn't say it was "so good," it would just be really, really expensive to get rid of it. Perhaps the best position is somewhere between the "massive immigration" that you suggest I support and the "get rid of 'em all" position taken in an earlier post.

~elwood

[brad]

massive immigration is the statuus quo.

the illegality ensures poverty wages, social problems, etc.

[MMMMMM]

In addition to keeping wages low, massive illegal immigration adds an enormous financial burden to social service programs.

[brad]

privatize the profits, socialize the costs