Shorthanded Simulated Hand Rankings

[Redhotman]

I have seen several simulations where a ten handed is handed out and then the results are recorded for the percentage each hand wins. Has anyone ever seen any studies using a shorthand game?

[crockpot]

no.

[crockpot]

but seriously, now that you mention it, this seems like a much better idea than the ring game rankings, since people actually play to the river without a big hand much more often shorthanded.

still, i haven't seen one. you may want to just run some hands on twodimes to get a general idea.

[goodguy_1]

These are ev stats off of Pokerroom.These arent perfect but decent estimates of proper ev for 5/6 handed ring play.
The details on how they were calculated are on the website:

https://www.pokerroom.com/games/evstats/positionStats.php?players=5

https://www.pokerroom.com/games/evstats/positionStats.php?players=6

[Nottom]

Pretty interesting ... I'm a bit surprised that being suited made that much difference on the Ax hands shorthanded. According to the 5-handed chart Axs is +EV from all positions, while Ax (x<10) is nearly always -EV.

[AleoMagus]

well, here's hand rankings for heads up play anyways:

1.AA
2.KK
3.QQ
4.JJ
5.TT
6.99
7.88
8.AKs
9.77
10.AQs
11.AJs
12.AK
13.ATs
14.AQ
15.AJ
16.KQs
17.66
18.A9s
19.AT
20.KJs
21.A8s
22.KTs
23.KQ
24.A7s
25.A9
26.KJ
27.QJ
28.55
29.A8
30.K9s
31.A6s
32.A5s
33.KT
34.QTs
35.A7
36.A4s
37.K8s
38.QJ
39.A3s
40.K9
41.Q9s
42.K7s
43.A6
44.A5
45.JTs
46.QT
47.A2s
48.44
49.K6s
50.A4
51.K8
52.Q8s
53.J9s
54.K5s
55.A3
56.Q9
57.JT
58.K7
59.K4s
60.A2

Sorry, But I actually don't remember where I got these. I had simply printed them off the internet once and couldn't find them again. Too bad, because I remember they also had hand rankings for 4,6,8,10 players.
Anyways, don't take them too seriously because in my opinion these kinds of hand rankings are very misleading. You will notice if you read any of Sklansky's books that his hand rankings are not the same as pure ten handed No folding simulations. This is because some hands, though they will win more pots than others, will tend to win small pots and lose big ones. AT in full table play is an example of this. This is why even though it is ranked about 25 in pure ten handed no folding simulations, it is actually much worse than that. The same kind of thing is probably true of a lot of hands here.
Still. I agree these results are interesting and agree that real hand rankings for even ten handed play should be based more on these kinds of shorthanded results as that is how those pots will usually end up. In fact, I remember reading helmuth's new book and thinking "is this guy on crack?" when he ranked the top ten hands as AA-77, AKs, and AQs. Well, I see now where he got that from - It is the top ten hands heads up.
I especially think that these results are useful in no limit where you could go all in preflop against one opponent and end the betting right there. Then these rankings are exact. Hope this was some help
Brad S

[Redhotman]

[ QUOTE ]
well, here's hand rankings for heads up play anyways:

1.AA
2.KK
3.QQ
4.JJ
5.TT
6.99
7.88
8.AKs
9.77
10.AQs
11.AJs
12.AK
13.ATs
14.AQ
15.AJ
16.KQs
17.66
18.A9s
19.AT
20.KJs
21.A8s
22.KTs
23.KQ
24.A7s
25.A9
26.KJ
27.QJ
28.55
29.A8
30.K9s
31.A6s
32.A5s
33.KT
34.QTs
35.A7
36.A4s
37.K8s
38.QJ
39.A3s
40.K9
41.Q9s
42.K7s
43.A6
44.A5
45.JTs
46.QT
47.A2s
48.44
49.K6s
50.A4
51.K8
52.Q8s
53.J9s
54.K5s
55.A3
56.Q9
57.JT
58.K7
59.K4s
60.A2

Sorry, But I actually don't remember where I got these. I had simply printed them off the internet once and couldn't find them again. Too bad, because I remember they also had hand rankings for 4,6,8,10 players.
Anyways, don't take them too seriously because in my opinion these kinds of hand rankings are very misleading. You will notice if you read any of Sklansky's books that his hand rankings are not the same as pure ten handed No folding simulations. This is because some hands, though they will win more pots than others, will tend to win small pots and lose big ones. AT in full table play is an example of this. This is why even though it is ranked about 25 in pure ten handed no folding simulations, it is actually much worse than that. The same kind of thing is probably true of a lot of hands here.
Still. I agree these results are interesting and agree that real hand rankings for even ten handed play should be based more on these kinds of shorthanded results as that is how those pots will usually end up. In fact, I remember reading helmuth's new book and thinking "is this guy on crack?" when he ranked the top ten hands as AA-77, AKs, and AQs. Well, I see now where he got that from - It is the top ten hands heads up.
I especially think that these results are useful in no limit where you could go all in preflop against one opponent and end the betting right there. Then these rankings are exact. Hope this was some help
Brad S

[/ QUOTE ]
probally came from pokalyzer...

[tpir90036]

the stats could be slightly skewed since people probably play suited aces more than they do unsuited. if people actually played A5o in every situation where they played A5s the shorthanded stats would probably not be that much different since you rarely need a flush to win heads-up.

[Nottom]

This doesn't make much sence to me. If A5s was an inherantly unprofitable hand then if people played it too much then it would show a loss not a win.