Losing in a very loose game

I have been fortunate enough to find myself in a 11 man HE game with $3 $6 blinds and a 1/2 pot limit with a max of $50.Most flops are taken by 3 to 7 players with more tham one preflop raise being unusual,a preflop raise also is usually called by those who had limped in the $6 BB.The general rule of thumb for all but one of the players is that ANYTHING suited is worth playing as is anything remotely connected and a board of Q43 J 4 will typically shown down by a player with K4 and 84s for the loser so the issues are thus :


1. Blinds are tiny so many players play 2. The first preflop raise is limited to 1/2 pot usually about $12 so it is universally called 3. After the flop a player holding a flush or strt draw will happily pay 1 1/2 or 2 big bets (BB =$50) to draw to his hand even in a heads up situation. 4. Unless I am lucky enough to find another preflop raiser and can reraise ,it is almost impossible to get heads up or 3 way preflop.


I initially ythought that ultratight and ultra aggressive was the way to approach this game but nearly every overpair I get gets cracked by 2 small pair or flushes and strts (regular and backdoor/gut buster)


I am noiw thinking that I too must play any suited connectors and all pairs and take advantage of the excellent implied odds to get my edge and rather play my overpairs passively unless they spike a set on the flop or I can get heads up.


I am desperately unsure how to approach this and ALL SUGGESTIONS WILL BE APPRECIATED

I think you're vision is too narrowly tunneled toward the cards. Try this. Fold every hand in the first six spots or so except pocket pairs and AK. (This means from the blinds too.)


From the later seats, especially the last two, play the suited connectors and KQ's and such.


Two things will happen. You'll be the tightest player that ever walked through that door and your successful-bluff rate will go through the roof. Don't think that lose players will still call you. It is the losest players who are especially leary of the tightest.


Warning, what I'm suggesting here will bore you to death. Fold fold fold fold fold. Oh, it's my button? Okay, let's see a flop. Fold fold fold fold. Oh, I got aces? Okay, lets see a flop. Fold fold fold fold. Are you up for that?


Tommy

Hey I'll try it,I see what you mean though,even the calling station losers will begin to think twice about calling my early position raises after a while.


Thanks Tommy

More like:


fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold OH cool! AK! raise! Fold on the flop. Fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold 99! woohoo! I'll go for a set. damn no set. fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold


Check the big blind with 82o. Flop comes 22K. Win 25 big bets against AK and KQ.


fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold fold


Rack up and leave.


natedogg

with all due respect to the usually brilliant tommy angelo, this advice of his here is not all that. playing very tight will get the money, but at a lower earn per hour rate than below.


the advice on loose games is this: READ and MEMORIZE the loose games section of hold em poker for advanced players. the most important thing is to learn and understand the theory behing what mason and david say in that section (esp. the part about encouraging your opponents to make mistakes). also critical to your understanding of this loose game you are in is the section in theory of poker where david attacks the simplistic notion that you should play "tighter in loose games, and looser in tight games". his advice on exactly how to adjust to looser games is terrific. the hpfap section on "wild games" will also prove helpful.


i was up against a local 6-12 kill game that was loose and oftentimes wild and i could NOT beat it for the life of me. then i did what i suggest above and i couldnt stop beating it. keep in mind you will need a bigger bankroll to not go broke in this sort of game because the swings can be big.


best of luck to you!

natedogg is so right. lots of folding, and then winning phat fat pots with cheese from the blinds. however, i think that he underestimates in his post how wild and loose some games get. KQ and AK losing money on that pot is not the half of it. you'll probably get another 20 BB from those who flop 3card straight and flush draws and see the turn, and possibly the river, the pocket QQ, the K5 who hits his 5 on the turn, and the drunk guy who calls because he knows that you are bluffing. (ok i realize that's way more hands than are actually dealt in one round, but the examples hold true for the loose games akin to what Greg posted. in these games, i tend to agree with mike l. who said that tightening up against loose players will earn the mad stacks and racks. while it is true that your variance will go down, and you will get paid off big when they know they're beat, it isn't true that this is the best way to beat these games. play hands that tend to work well in multiway pots. defend your blinds more. you can loosen up a LITTLE bit in these games because you will outplay your opponents after the flop. by outplay, i mean mucking when you miss and not chasing miracle outs and the like, as well as punishing them for their loose play. push your edges more in these games because they will get paid off, and dearly. that said, the fluctuations willl be enormous, and if you can't stomach the thought of a string of cheese and losing 50 or 100 BB before the cream starts to rise, then this game isn't for you. but if you are prepared for the swings, then go ahead and play with the big apes.

"Rack up and leave."


Thank you for sharing such a pleasant fantasy with the class. Your final exam is,


... fold fold ... fold fold, pick up AA and flop an ace and go busted. Rebuy.


Fold fold ... fold fold, get a free flop with 8-2 from the BB, flop comes 8-8-2, the 10 on the turn hits the guy with 10-10, and you go busted again. Rebuy.


Can you still fold now?


Tommy

Thanks for the responses,I'll post my progress in a little while


Regards to all


Greg

I've gotta reread that section.


My last two nights have been losses. Granted they could have been less had I not gone on tilt at one point...but losses nonetheless.


The worst part is when you get a reputation for bad beats...then they'll friggen call you no matter what. I had players go runner-runner on me about 9 times last night.


Even worse is, although they were loose (one guy took his 9-J and snapped off my A-K - even though I was betting like a madman with top pair the whole way) - they were calling cause it was ME! (or so they say) - people who will try it cause they think you're unlucky...that just pissed me off to the nth degree...So I'm going back to the loose games review. Here's to nuthin.


RB

I hear where you are coming from loud and clear. My big problem in these loose games is the same as yours. I thoroughly outplay the fish. On a regular basis, 3 (or more of them) chase ridiculous draws all the way to the river. When I bet on the river with my made set on the flop and someone raises me I start thinking - the only way this guys has me beat is if he was dumb enough to cold call a triple raise preflop and then to chase his backdoor straight on the flop, gut shot on the turn and then hit the river with a 2 4 . I decide that there is no way anyone (even a fish) is dumb enough to do something like that. Then he turns his 2 4 offsuit over (the only possible hand that can beat me). Happens all the time.


I am a steady winner at LL but sometimes suffer some miserably bad beats that frustrate the hell out of me. Stay patient and you will be a winner in the long term. If you start to tilt, leave. I have found that I lose much, much more as a result of tilting than I do via bad beats. Food for thought.

Baggins, I don't agree that you can see more flops because you can outplay your opponents. there is no chance to outplay anybody in these games. The best hand is going to win, it's that simple.


The pots are so big there is no need to push a small edge. You can wait for a hand when you get a huge edge and push that. Don't slowplay anything. They'll come with anything so charge them.


I agree that you can play a few more hands, but only play them from the back so you have a positional advantage. Hands like connected suiters, and small pocket pairs go up in value. Big off suit go down.

Suited connectors are stronger in loose games than in tight games... particularly when the structure (pot limit) is such that betting on later streets is much higher than earlier streets...


A pair of aces will rarely stand up in 9 way action. You need to try to get premium (straights and better) hands cheaply and run with them.


Understand your hourly variance is going to be sky high in a game like this.

AQ test...gl