One Hand from the 2+2 Table

[Festus22]

Precrash, I had A-A in the BB.

MaxPower open raised from the CO. Barry and Dougiefresh (I think that's who it was) called the 2 and I just called.

Flop [K-x-x, suits unimportant]. Dougie checked, I checked, Max bet, Barry and Dougie folded. I was planning on check-raising if Barry or Dougie called but I just smooth called again after they folded.

Turn J-[K-x-x]. I checked, Max bet, I raised, he called.

River Q-[J-K-x-x]. I bet, Max raised, I called.

He flips Q-Q for the rivered set.

The table was playing its usual tight/aggressive but somewhat predictable. Immediately after the hand, following some razzing, Max typed "How was I supposed to know he had aces?" which of course was exactly the idea in the first place. I surely wasn't going to blow Max off his hand and I figured with 2 more callers, I'd make up the PF loss postflop with the deception.

Does this play have some validity in a game like this or just stick to basic tactics? Also, would a play like this be better heads-up or against multiple opponents as was the case here?

[ccwhoelse?]

i think you should do it heads up and even then pick your spots.

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I'd make up the PF loss postflop with the deception.


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but I just smooth called again after they folded

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CO can be raising preflop here with a large variety of hands. why give him easy chances to suck out on you?

you only have a one pair hand against 3 opponents. there is plenty in the pot to go after it right away.


i hindsight, i would have played it exactly the way you did /images/graemlins/shocked.gif wait no /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Festus22]

If I would have 3-bet PF, would you have capped?

Let's assume I did 3-bet and you capped and then I lead out on the flop. Do you raise? If so, call my subsequent 3-bet? Would you then call the hand down when I bet every street?

Just wondering if the play I made actually was self destructive a larger portion of the time than the potential benefit gained from the deception.

As some other threads have already touched on, I was trying a few things different just to see how they worked (or not). A couple that I tried that were somewhat atypical for that game was limping UTG+1 with 6-6 and with A-5s UTG+2. Both worked out well but these were only an attempt to vary my play and also to see how the table would react.

[Mike Gallo]

Festus,

You gave him just enough rope to hang yourself with /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[Nottom]

With the extra players in the pot, I think its better to just reveal the strength of you hand preflop. About the only time I don't raise aces preflop is on a missed limp-reraise attempt or heads up against someone who 3-bet me. Given your preflop play, I think the rest of the hand was fine.

[Munga30]

You should have lost more on this hand and you will be leaving a lot of money on the table in future hands.

With the cold callers, you have a clear three-bet. Deception be damned, get in at least one more bet and give Max a chance to cap it. Even if Max has the other AA, I think you profit greatly whether Doug and Barry call two more or fold.

Without the cold callers, I still think you have to three-bet. Count me solidly in the "deception-by-playing-more-hands-like-aces" camp. Hey, Max may even cap it for you with a dominated hand!! If I had QQ in Max's spot, I would. I know that showing or telling just about every hand takes away it a little, but the good habits you reinforce at the 2+2 table will be worth it.

Given your preflop action and that Max is likely an aggressive player, I think your flop and turn plays are ok. My river play is horrible, so I can't decide whether checking the river after Max calls your check-raise and the Q comes is solid play or results oriented.

[lil']

I didn't even finish the post. You passed up a chance to get at least 3 more SB (more if someone capped) in the pot pre-flop with the best possible hand. That's a big mistake.

[MaxPower]

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If I would have 3-bet PF, would you have capped?

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No, Barry's cold-call had me a little worried. Even then, I normally don't 3 bet here.

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Let's assume I did 3-bet and you capped and then I lead out on the flop. Do you raise? If so, call my subsequent 3-bet? Would you then call the hand down when I bet every street?

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If you 3-bet and led out, I would have folded.

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Just wondering if the play I made actually was self destructive a larger portion of the time than the potential benefit gained from the deception.


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With 3 opponents you just gave up too much by not 3-betting pre-flop. If it was heads-up, that's another matter.

What does everyone here think about my calling his turn raise?

[Mike Gallo]

What does everyone here think about my calling his turn raise?

You called his turn check raise. Unless you put him on AJ 1010 or AQ, you made a questionable call.

What did you think he had that he called a raise cold and check called the flop and check raised the turn?

I would have put him on at least AK or AJ. I would not have put him on AA the way he played it.

[Festus22]

Thanks for the reality check everyone. I really did screw that one up. It sure was easy to get caught up in fancy play syndrome when you know everyone at the table is a strong player. That was just not the right time or the hand to do it.

And the learning process continues...

[GuyOnTilt]

I'd make up the PF loss postflop with the deception.

If you planned on trying to make up 2 SB's postflop, you played your hand horribly. Why not bet the flop? The CO would've raised you with any K he would've raised PF with, and you would've been able to then 3-bet. Why not check-raise the flop? Your opponent may 3-bet you and set you up for a turn C/R. You played your hand postflop exactly how I would expect a fish to try to "maximize" the money in the pot, when in actuality you minimized your profit while maximizing your chances of getting sucked out on.

Preflop, your thinking was backwards. The presence of the 3rd party in the hand should make you more inclined to reraise preflop! That's at least 2 SB's you're losing out on. If it were headsup, then I'd be more inclined to flat-call the "blind steal" raise from the BB for deception. However, since I like having control of the pots I'm in, I would still 3-bet.

At least you know you played badly.

[Joshua]

I never slowplay aces unless I'm heads-up and plan to raise the turn instead. I normally don't like to use the words never and poker in the same sentence but I think this is an exception. I know my limitations and normally don't give up preflop equity in order to try and win more later. I think you have to be a pretty good post-flop player to use this giving-up-preflop-equity-strategy.

[MaxPower]

Festus,

I just checked the hand history. The Jack came on the flop and King came on the turn.

Flop: 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif J /images/graemlins/spade.gif 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif
Turn: K /images/graemlins/club.gif
River Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

This changes things somewhat. I wouldn't have folded on the flop if you 3-bet pre-flop.

Does this make my call of your check-raise more reasonable?