Thinking all Wrong on These 2 BB hands?

[Utah]

$1/$2 Pokerstars

First hand (stacks are all deep):
UTG raises to $6. Folded around to me in the BB. I have A /images/graemlins/heart.gif A /images/graemlins/spade.gif. I call

Flop is K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif
I check. He Bets $16. I call with the intention of checking the turn and then setting him all-in hoping he has A,K.

Unfortunately, the turn is Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif.
I check he bets $16 and I call. The reason I check call is that I am likely ahead he will flail on himself. But if I raise he will likely fold. If he has a Q I lose the minimum.

River is the K /images/graemlins/club.gif.
I check, he bets $16, and I call.

Do you play this hand differently?

Hand 2 (stacks are all deep).
Early and late limper. I take a free ride in the BB with.
10/images/graemlins/club.gif 8 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

3 take the flop of:
5 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 6 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 7 /images/graemlins/club.gif
I have a straight draw, 2 over cards, and I likely kill anyone with a 8 if the 9 comes. But, I am out out of position with a draw.

I check, early limper checks, and the button makes it $5 into a $3.5 pot. I check-raise him to $15, overbetting the pot to try and steal it right there. Early player and raise both call. Yikes.

About $50 in the pot.
Turn in 7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif

I check, EP checks, and button bets $8. Both call. Anyone fold here?

River is 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif.

I check, EP bets $8, late Player goes all-in for $50. I fold and early player calls.

Early player has quad 7s and late player has Full house 5s over 7s.

Anyone play this differently?

[Jon Matthews]

Hand 1

Check raise the pot on the flop, hopefully AK will call, maybe drop, AQ should drop. On the turn you're likely up against AK and he now may fear that AQ was trying to push him off on the flop and it's possible you take it right there if you bet.

As it played, I don't think you can call the river bet, you can't really beat anything at all there except AJ or suchlike.


Hand 2

Check raise not too bad on the flop but I prefer a call, you have to call the turn for that amount really. At least it wasn't set over set for you on the flop like it was for them!

[Zag]

First hand: Almost always, reraise preflop. I would only call here less than 10% of the time. You know you're ahead right now, make him pay to beat you.

On the flop, either bet out or check-raise right now. I like the check-raise, because if he reraises, you can lay it down (to KK).

On the turn, I don't have a big argument. On the river, what are you expecting him to show you? I suppose he could have JJ or TT, and now is just bluffing, but more likely he has a K or Q and you're dead. I suppose he also could have AA, too -- you have yet to show him anything that AA would be afraid of, though he would probably have just checked behind with that. I suppose that there is $76 in the pot before his $16 bet. If you think there is a better than 1 in 5 chance he could be bluffing JJ or TT, it's worth a crying call, but I don't think so.

[tewall]

That's an interesting way to play AA. I think your plan is an interesting one. If your opponent is likely to play AK the same as KK, then you're 16 to 6 ahead, so that would be fine. You'd have to know your opponent however.

I think many opponents , especially if they're good, would check behind you on the turn (assuming a blank and they have AK or KK). In this case I think you should check the river and call a normal bet. This line of play is assuming the money is deep and you're playing a pretty good opponent.

I think your way of playing is better than what I'm suggesting if your opponent overplays his hands.

[tewall]

You're not 16 to 6 ahead because you have 2 aces. You're only 8 to 6 ahead, so I like the line of play I suggested even if your opponent isn't good.

[ALL1N]

12 to 6 maybe?

[Ian M.]

I'm fairly new to online no limit so take my advice for what its worth, but here is how I wouldve played these hands.

In the first hand, I think you really need to reraise preflop. You should be making your opponents pay to have position on you postflop when you know that you have the best hand preflop. I wouldve made a play on the flop, either betting out or checkraising. Notice how if you reraised preflop when you had the best of it, it makes your postflop play easier. Reraising preflop basically diagrams AK/AA/KK so if you bet the flop or checkraise you have a good idea where you stand by how your opponent reacts. I think on the turn, checking and calling is the wrong move. You have to consider the impending bet on the river as well. Personally I wouldve folded to the bet on the turn. On the river I wouldve folded as well, as there is almost nothing that he could have that you beat.

In the second hand, the are put in a very awkward position with that flop. A bet is unlikely to take the pot down, as it is rather coordinated in an unraised pot, and probably hit someone. I dont like the check raise here because it looks like you are probably drawing. I may be weak tight in these situations but I would probably fold to the overbet here. I would perhaps recommend the raise with position, but in EP you are put in such an awkward spot when you are called and miss on the turn.

[Ignatius]

1) reraise preflop; if you have to slow-play your ace, then at least bet the flop. You will get action if the flop hit him anyway, but you cannot risk a free card with two facecards on board. Since you checked the flop, raise big (probably all-in) once he bet behind you.
.
2) Muck. If you have to play, then call, but don't raise! The only reason which makes your T8 (barely) playable at all is the chance to double up against another 8 if a 9 comes, so don't destroy your implied odds and hope to get EP to overcall. Still, the best play is to muck for his 1 1/2 pot overbet on the flop.
.
the button makes it $5 into a $3.5 pot. I check-raise him to $15, overbetting the pot
.
A pot sized raise would have been to $18.5, so you did in fact underbet the flop. Chances are that the button has a hand here and that your raise will only manage to get yourself heads-up out of position with a drawing hand and 1/4 of your stack in - not a favorable spot.

[tewall]

I was tired when I wrote it, but I'm capable of screwing this up even with a clear head. There's 3 kings and 2 aces unaccounted for. So 6 ways to make AK and 3 ways to make KK, so you're right. So if the guy will always charge ahead like a bull with AK, then trapping would be fine. If he plays decent, a more cautious strategy would be in order.

[1800GAMBLER]

[ QUOTE ]


On the flop, either bet out or check-raise right now. I like the check-raise, because if he reraises, you can lay it down (to KK).




[/ QUOTE ]

A lot of players would reraise in this situation with AK here.

[1800GAMBLER]

Hand 1.

Preflop is a very good idea. Stack sizes are deep, which is perfect for this, nice going.

Flop: I don't like it. That's a scary board and i want to know were i stand now.

River: I'd fold, you can only hope for AJ, a slipt.

Hand 2.

I don't like your checkraise. Calling is better, more so for the fact of you'll keep that person with the 8 in the hand. Looks like you fell into:

Brain: "i don't have odds i should fold."
Ego: "Hey, listen up. We've done nothing for ages and i'm not folding. I want to pull a move; i'm pulling a move."
Brain: "..without me then."

In your case; I would have continued my bluff on the turn after the top card paired too. Then of course through to the river just to get the misdraws high cards out.