huzitup2
10-21-2003, 09:17 AM
in the world.
1. There are people who MAKE things happen.
2. There are people who WATCH things happen.
3. There are people who scratch their heads, glance at the floor, then look at you and ask WHAT just happened.
*
I wish I knew who first said this; it's always been one of my favorite quotes.
*
I met someone about a month ago but only recently found out that she plays poker. (How did a month go by without this topic coming up at least once ? /images/graemlins/confused.gif)
She was visiting on Saturday and we happened to be watching either ESPN or the TRAVEL CHANNEL when a commercial for the W/P/T came on. One thing led to another and she mentioned how she really liked playing poker and how she was waiting for her Neteller account to be validated so she could start playing online.
I paused for about 10 seconds (to picture what our children might look like /images/graemlins/smile.gif) then suggested she give it a try using my account.
I didn't have to ask twice.
She had to wait about 5-10 minutes for a seat; during this very brief amount of time I was able to infer that she DID have a pretty good idea of what she was doing.
OK, seat open, 2/4 - I know most of the players at this table and offer her a quick rundown on them while she waits for the blind to come around. She had never played a "real money" game at this site (or any other) but she had played a few hours of play money in order to get accustomed to playing online.
Here are the results from her first ever online poker hand.
UTG raises and gets SIX callers. (Welcome to online low-limit /images/graemlins/smirk.gif)
She has T-8/off. She glances at me and says, "I'm calling - my call closes the action, and the raise came from the perfect spot. If I hit this it's going to be a really nice pot.
OK, now I'm SURE she knows what she's doing. I knew from our short conversation that she was not going to be a "donator" but I didn't expect to hear anything like that from someone who a year ago had never seen nor heard of holdem.
Eight to the flop - - - pot = $31 ($32 - $1 rake)
Flop: J / 9 / 7 (rainbow)
This post is not about how she played this hand; please - a tree trunk could have handled this one.
I AM going to describe how the OTHERS played their hands.
SB checks, she checks, UTG bets, 4 callers, SB folds, and she raises. (That's exactly what I would have done).
As she raises she says, "I hope he 3-bets - I'd be happy if even ONE of them folds".
More clear thinking, but she doesn't get her wish; all call.
Six to the turn - - - pot = $54 ($56 - $2 rake)
The turn is a "4" (fourth suit - no possible flush and close to the best card in the deck).
She bets out, UTG raises (this has to be a set but she's still got the nuts), 2 callers and the button 3-BETS.
She caps it - she had clicked auto-raise as soon as UTG raised - and they ALL call.
Five to the river - - - pot = $153 (156 - 3)
*
I forgot to mention that she is a VERY pretty girl, but not nearly as pretty as the "5" that landed on the river.
She turns to me and I give her a "well, it's your turn to bet, so BET" look. (There's no sense getting cute here; who's gonna bite after she capped the turn ?)
She bets, UTG just calls, one caller and the button raises.
Oh well, half of a pot is better than nothing.
Now I do jump in. I suggest to her that she just call; I doubt that either UTG or the caller will call 2 more bets, but I'm almost certain that both will call one more.
UTG 3-bets. OK, this is gonna be fun; I know this guy - he's not the brightest bulb on the tree, but he did not open for a raise with T/8. He's got a set of Jacks and he's about to have a head on crash with "disappointment".
The caller folds, and the button JUST CALLS ! ! !
Of course she caps it, and I'd swear I could hear UTG and the button calling her every name in the book. They both call. (Yeah, like either of them are going to fold for one more bet with $200+ out there).
Since her hand rolled first I had to go to "H/H" to see what they had.
UTG had a set of nines; the button had EIGHT/SIX for a smaller straight. (Yes, it WAS suited - lol).
OK, now comes the "you lucky 'xxxx', you'll be broke in an hour", etc. (My "character is "male"; they might not have been quite so rude if I'd had a female character . . . Anyone else ever notice this ?)
The player who folded without putting any money in on the river said he had Q/T - no reason not to believe him; the player who called one river bet didn't say anything - never gonna know what he had.
We've all heard the cliche, "if you get a flopped set cracked and don't lose a bunch of chips you probably played it badly".
Well, you can take a good idea and carry it too far, but I can't really say that there was any other way for UTG to play his hand; he was going to pay the same amount even if he had been clever enough to see that he might not have the best hand and gone into check/call at some point. (He probably thought, "I know it's gonna get capped so I may as well cap it myself").
The button's pre-flop call was not one I would make but I don't see it as horrible; calling 2 bets with 8/6s when there were already 5 players in and there might wind up being as many as NINE is nowhere near the worst play I've ever seen - and his call came close to closing the action since only the blinds remained.
His flop call - well, he did have 4 outs to a "real" straight and 4 more to a one-card straight, but if I can't see him getting too excited about the latter.
But how does he call all those bets on the turn with what is essentially a gutshot draw to a straight that could lose if he hits it ? ? ?
I'm also wondering what the guy who called one bet on the river had. He was drawing to two outs if he wasn't drawing DEAD !
Wait, that's not necessarilly true; he could have had a gutshot to the nuts (K/Q or K/T), but if he did he paid top dollar to try for it.
There's no way Q/T can fold before the river, but I don't like the pre-flop call. (Maybe he was also SUITED /images/graemlins/crazy.gif).
*
I'm always hearing about "Morton's Theorum" (a/k/a "schooling") but this was a case where one player's TERRIBLE play cost another player a bunch of money even though he himself wound up losing less. (4 whole dollars less)
How could UTG not 3-bet the flop ? ? ?
OK, it wasn't my intention to nitpick over the precise details of who did what.
They all played like beginners, and 7 of the 9 have been around for a long time.
UTG was the only one who didn't butcher his hand, but he made his share of mistakes just like the others did.
Q/T had no business calling 2 cold pre-flop. He was UTG + 3; that's not a place where I cold-call raises with this hand. Obviously, once the flop came he just [correctly] put it on auto-call and missed a draw that he had ~ a 30% chance of hitting.
*
After she logged out - she only played for about 30 minutes - I asked her to be TOTALLY honest and tell me which hands, if any, she would have called with pre-flop, and, would she have released any of them sooner than their owners did ?
I never got an answer.
She asked me (in a not at all obnoxious tone), "are there alot of players on this site that play this badly".
I figured if she could answer my question with a question that I could do the same. I asked her whether she would be asking me this if UTG had filled up and/or if Q-T had hit his hand.
She swore that if either had happened she'd still be chomping at the bit for the chance to play against people who played this badly.
I believe her. She played some more the following morning before I woke up and took a few of the beats that only happen in really loose games (although she did squeeze out another few dollars in the morning session also).
My turn to try to ask an obnoxious question without sounding obnoxious . . .
I know people play poker for all sorts of different reasons, but how is it that the worst of the worst don't get fed up and quit after a few months of having their brains bashed in almost every time they sit down ?
There are some that I can't believe EVER have a winning session unless the session is very short.
Can anyone explain this to me ? (I really would like to know).
It's just my fascination with human nature; I took up golf, discovered in a few months that I would NEVER be any good, so I gave it up - and sucking at golf is ALOT cheaper than sucking at poker !
*
Thanks in advance for any and all replies.
Best wishes,
- H
*
It's 7am where I'm at and I've been up all night.
I appologize in advance for any typos or math errors. I have the "H/H" in front of me but it doesn't say how much was in the pot after each round; I might have missed $4 here or there but I think I got it right and I've been wanting to post this since Sunday morning but I haven't had the time.
1. There are people who MAKE things happen.
2. There are people who WATCH things happen.
3. There are people who scratch their heads, glance at the floor, then look at you and ask WHAT just happened.
*
I wish I knew who first said this; it's always been one of my favorite quotes.
*
I met someone about a month ago but only recently found out that she plays poker. (How did a month go by without this topic coming up at least once ? /images/graemlins/confused.gif)
She was visiting on Saturday and we happened to be watching either ESPN or the TRAVEL CHANNEL when a commercial for the W/P/T came on. One thing led to another and she mentioned how she really liked playing poker and how she was waiting for her Neteller account to be validated so she could start playing online.
I paused for about 10 seconds (to picture what our children might look like /images/graemlins/smile.gif) then suggested she give it a try using my account.
I didn't have to ask twice.
She had to wait about 5-10 minutes for a seat; during this very brief amount of time I was able to infer that she DID have a pretty good idea of what she was doing.
OK, seat open, 2/4 - I know most of the players at this table and offer her a quick rundown on them while she waits for the blind to come around. She had never played a "real money" game at this site (or any other) but she had played a few hours of play money in order to get accustomed to playing online.
Here are the results from her first ever online poker hand.
UTG raises and gets SIX callers. (Welcome to online low-limit /images/graemlins/smirk.gif)
She has T-8/off. She glances at me and says, "I'm calling - my call closes the action, and the raise came from the perfect spot. If I hit this it's going to be a really nice pot.
OK, now I'm SURE she knows what she's doing. I knew from our short conversation that she was not going to be a "donator" but I didn't expect to hear anything like that from someone who a year ago had never seen nor heard of holdem.
Eight to the flop - - - pot = $31 ($32 - $1 rake)
Flop: J / 9 / 7 (rainbow)
This post is not about how she played this hand; please - a tree trunk could have handled this one.
I AM going to describe how the OTHERS played their hands.
SB checks, she checks, UTG bets, 4 callers, SB folds, and she raises. (That's exactly what I would have done).
As she raises she says, "I hope he 3-bets - I'd be happy if even ONE of them folds".
More clear thinking, but she doesn't get her wish; all call.
Six to the turn - - - pot = $54 ($56 - $2 rake)
The turn is a "4" (fourth suit - no possible flush and close to the best card in the deck).
She bets out, UTG raises (this has to be a set but she's still got the nuts), 2 callers and the button 3-BETS.
She caps it - she had clicked auto-raise as soon as UTG raised - and they ALL call.
Five to the river - - - pot = $153 (156 - 3)
*
I forgot to mention that she is a VERY pretty girl, but not nearly as pretty as the "5" that landed on the river.
She turns to me and I give her a "well, it's your turn to bet, so BET" look. (There's no sense getting cute here; who's gonna bite after she capped the turn ?)
She bets, UTG just calls, one caller and the button raises.
Oh well, half of a pot is better than nothing.
Now I do jump in. I suggest to her that she just call; I doubt that either UTG or the caller will call 2 more bets, but I'm almost certain that both will call one more.
UTG 3-bets. OK, this is gonna be fun; I know this guy - he's not the brightest bulb on the tree, but he did not open for a raise with T/8. He's got a set of Jacks and he's about to have a head on crash with "disappointment".
The caller folds, and the button JUST CALLS ! ! !
Of course she caps it, and I'd swear I could hear UTG and the button calling her every name in the book. They both call. (Yeah, like either of them are going to fold for one more bet with $200+ out there).
Since her hand rolled first I had to go to "H/H" to see what they had.
UTG had a set of nines; the button had EIGHT/SIX for a smaller straight. (Yes, it WAS suited - lol).
OK, now comes the "you lucky 'xxxx', you'll be broke in an hour", etc. (My "character is "male"; they might not have been quite so rude if I'd had a female character . . . Anyone else ever notice this ?)
The player who folded without putting any money in on the river said he had Q/T - no reason not to believe him; the player who called one river bet didn't say anything - never gonna know what he had.
We've all heard the cliche, "if you get a flopped set cracked and don't lose a bunch of chips you probably played it badly".
Well, you can take a good idea and carry it too far, but I can't really say that there was any other way for UTG to play his hand; he was going to pay the same amount even if he had been clever enough to see that he might not have the best hand and gone into check/call at some point. (He probably thought, "I know it's gonna get capped so I may as well cap it myself").
The button's pre-flop call was not one I would make but I don't see it as horrible; calling 2 bets with 8/6s when there were already 5 players in and there might wind up being as many as NINE is nowhere near the worst play I've ever seen - and his call came close to closing the action since only the blinds remained.
His flop call - well, he did have 4 outs to a "real" straight and 4 more to a one-card straight, but if I can't see him getting too excited about the latter.
But how does he call all those bets on the turn with what is essentially a gutshot draw to a straight that could lose if he hits it ? ? ?
I'm also wondering what the guy who called one bet on the river had. He was drawing to two outs if he wasn't drawing DEAD !
Wait, that's not necessarilly true; he could have had a gutshot to the nuts (K/Q or K/T), but if he did he paid top dollar to try for it.
There's no way Q/T can fold before the river, but I don't like the pre-flop call. (Maybe he was also SUITED /images/graemlins/crazy.gif).
*
I'm always hearing about "Morton's Theorum" (a/k/a "schooling") but this was a case where one player's TERRIBLE play cost another player a bunch of money even though he himself wound up losing less. (4 whole dollars less)
How could UTG not 3-bet the flop ? ? ?
OK, it wasn't my intention to nitpick over the precise details of who did what.
They all played like beginners, and 7 of the 9 have been around for a long time.
UTG was the only one who didn't butcher his hand, but he made his share of mistakes just like the others did.
Q/T had no business calling 2 cold pre-flop. He was UTG + 3; that's not a place where I cold-call raises with this hand. Obviously, once the flop came he just [correctly] put it on auto-call and missed a draw that he had ~ a 30% chance of hitting.
*
After she logged out - she only played for about 30 minutes - I asked her to be TOTALLY honest and tell me which hands, if any, she would have called with pre-flop, and, would she have released any of them sooner than their owners did ?
I never got an answer.
She asked me (in a not at all obnoxious tone), "are there alot of players on this site that play this badly".
I figured if she could answer my question with a question that I could do the same. I asked her whether she would be asking me this if UTG had filled up and/or if Q-T had hit his hand.
She swore that if either had happened she'd still be chomping at the bit for the chance to play against people who played this badly.
I believe her. She played some more the following morning before I woke up and took a few of the beats that only happen in really loose games (although she did squeeze out another few dollars in the morning session also).
My turn to try to ask an obnoxious question without sounding obnoxious . . .
I know people play poker for all sorts of different reasons, but how is it that the worst of the worst don't get fed up and quit after a few months of having their brains bashed in almost every time they sit down ?
There are some that I can't believe EVER have a winning session unless the session is very short.
Can anyone explain this to me ? (I really would like to know).
It's just my fascination with human nature; I took up golf, discovered in a few months that I would NEVER be any good, so I gave it up - and sucking at golf is ALOT cheaper than sucking at poker !
*
Thanks in advance for any and all replies.
Best wishes,
- H
*
It's 7am where I'm at and I've been up all night.
I appologize in advance for any typos or math errors. I have the "H/H" in front of me but it doesn't say how much was in the pot after each round; I might have missed $4 here or there but I think I got it right and I've been wanting to post this since Sunday morning but I haven't had the time.