Anyone fold this?

[ElSapo]

One limper, I raise on the button with AJs. BB calls, limper calls and we take the flop of AT3r, one of my suit.

Checked to me, I bet, they call.

Turn is an 8, and the BB bets. Limper folds. Anyone else find the fold here?

[Ed Miller]

Turn is an 8, and the BB bets. Limper folds. Anyone else find the fold here?

Of course not. You should raise. This bet is generally a "feeler" bet for information. He picked up a draw on the turn or has a weak ace and is hoping that you don't have an ace. Someone with a set or two pair typically goes for a checkraise on the turn.

[ElSapo]

I suppose it's worth noting that during the day I'm playing 2/4 and 3/6 at night. Agreed, in a 3/6 game.

I know the standard answer is "raise" or a minimum of call-down, which I did (call). He had the hand I thought (T8). Wouldn't bet b/c of the A, but would bet with two pair.

I noted this in a post early this morning. That sudden bet more and more is a two pair, and I'm guessing they don't want to CR b/c they don't want to be three-bet.

No, I can't lay this down either. Especially considering I have outs to a better hand. But I'm frustrated b/c my read was right but I still can't lay it down.

I think you can make an argument for laying this down on the river though. No?

[Ed Miller]

I think you can make an argument for laying this down on the river though. No?

No... no laying down. First of all, you can't lay down on the turn even if you put him on T8 because you have eight outs to beat that hand.

This is silly, man. You can't lay down top pair in a shorthanded pot every time someone else breathes.

[ElSapo]

Agreed, thanks.

I just wish they'd resume bluffing instead of actually having it.

Thanks for kicking sense back into my head.

[ropey]

As you get better at reading opponents, this is a good way of saving one big bet on the end when you miss your two pair. Of course, you have to be VERY accurate in your reads to make this worthwhile. But when a good player can be making around 2 BB/hr, just think what saving these big bets can do for you.

-ropey

[salty]

No way raise some sense into him and see if he plays back at you .

[ElSapo]

No way raise some sense into him and see if he plays back at you .

I like this, and I don't. That's the thing -- if I raise, he will probably check it to me on the river and call if I bet. The way I read these guys, these last few days, they bet out b/c now they have a hand but not so much that they'll risk being three-bet with a checkraise. Very passive players, which is what makes raising pointless, in my opinion (if I think they have the better hand). But I'm not really complaining here -- it's the passive and loose and easily readable nature that makes these guys fairly easy to beat. It's just frustrating to make an accurate read but not be able to act on it. I think the call on the river is probably right, just frustrating.

[Aaron Lovi]

I think folding is horrible poker! In most low-stakes games, you're still ahead here. I would call down, or bet if he checks the river. You'll often find yourself up against a weaker Ace who is scared to bet the flop but suddenly wants to find out if he's ahead or not on the turn.

[Aaron Lovi]

If you think they're passive enough to not 3-bet you on the turn with two pair then you should raise the turn, and check behind on the river unless you hit.

[ElSapo]

If you think they're passive enough to not 3-bet you on the turn with two pair then you should raise the turn, and check behind on the river unless you hit.

Assuming this read is correct - I am behnid and I don't get three-bet - why is your strategy correct?

[Aaron Lovi]

If you are sure that you are behind then it makes no sense to raise.

If you are not sure that you are behind, but you are sure you will not get 3-bet then you should raise. Then you bet the river only if you hit. If you hit you get 3 bets from the turn onwards. If you were ahead you get at least 2 bets and often save a bet on the river when the other guy hits but checks the river. But if you were behind and remain behind you lose the 2 bets whether you were going to call down or raise the turn and check behind on the river. The big difference is that you get a 3rd bet on the river when you were behind and suck out on the river.