Did a raise preflop cause me to lose?

[onegymrat]

Can a raise preflop entice a loose, undisciplined player to chase a hand further than normal? I began to wonder as this hand came up at the end of a bloodbath weekend.

$6-$12 live in L.A. Full table that has gradually gone from tight to very loose. I raised on the button, after four limpers, with A /images/graemlins/spade.gifQ /images/graemlins/spade.gif. I thought about limping for a second, but decided to take control of this hand. Both blinds and all limpers call of course. Seven to the flop.

Flop: A /images/graemlins/club.gif4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

Wow, Santa came early. Checked to the raiser, I bet. Three callers. Pay special attention to MP, who has shown to love any two cards. Four to the turn.

Turn: 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to the raiser. I'd figure I'd lose everyone by now. I bet, MP and LP calls only. Three to the river. I'm really needing a spade right now. I was sure one of the two opponents was wishing the same thing.

River: 6 /images/graemlins/club.gif

I didn't like this card and when checked to the raiser, I knuckled the table. MP couldn't wait to show 10 /images/graemlins/club.gif5 /images/graemlins/club.gif. LP mucked without showing, and I flash my cards as I mucked, while the whole table shook their heads in disbelief.

My guess was LP played small spades or a weak ace and went along for the ride. Most loose players bailed after seeing the flopped ace. This MP was unique though. I have an inclination that he doubted that I had an ace with the pf raise and would have seen the turn with any two cards he held. He clearly had not paid any attention to the betting patterns at the table from what I've seen. If I had not raise preflop, there would have been a bet or two before me, and I'm wondering if he would have called the flop bet. Was it the large pot that enticed him to call a long shot on the flop? Any insight?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

For what it's worth, the type that call with any 2 suited then call the flop with only back-door draws aren't really thinking about pot odds. All the preflop raise cost you was one small bet.

[Festus22]

Your point is interesting in that bigger pots induces more chasing. There's at least a dozen threads dealing with this very subject.

Having said that, I have a feeling that someone playing 10-5s from MP and then chasing a runner-runner finish with no other draw or overcards isn't really paying attention to pot or implied odds. If I'm not mistaken, he hit a 23:1 shot. Hopefully you'll see him at your table next time.

[onegymrat]

I thought about throwing a potato sack over him in the parking lot and beating him senseless, but that would just be silly.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Who needs the potato sack? Any hockey fan will tell you to just pull his shirt over his head.

[Ed Miller]

Can a raise preflop entice a loose, undisciplined player to chase a hand further than normal?

Of course. But failing to raise AQs on the button after four limpers is an enormous preflop mistake. Read my recent post on the topic of what hands to raise on the button after four limpers.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=377368&page=1&view=co llapsed&sb=5&o=14&vc=1

[onegymrat]

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Look... Idiots line up to give away their money. The stupidity of their actions gets worse every day. In california, even tho the average intelligence of a person might be higher than elsewhere, the average intelligence of a poker player goes DOWN. Be glad you didn't have to pay off on the river, say "great play," and next hand.

al