Who played the hand worse?

[Lil Ribbit]

5-10 hold em, table is typical.

An aggressive player in EP raises pre-flop with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif, MP cold calls and BB complete with
8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Flop T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB checks, Aggressive player bets, MP calls, BB check-raises and all call.

Turn 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB checks, Aggressive bets, MP folds, BB checkraises, Aggressive calls

River Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB bets and Aggressive calls.

Who played worse?

[crockpot]

i vote for big blind, who made the wrong play on all four streets. i fold preflop, check-call or occasionally bet the flop, check-call the turn, and check-raise the river.

i don't know why MP bet the turn, but to each his own.

[Brian]

I hate when CrockPot responds to a post before me... Because he always says nearly exactly what I was going to say. Same for you GuyOnTilt... Jerks!!!

Pre-Flop

EP: Good.
BB: Bad.

Flop

EP: Good
BB: Fine

Turn

EP: Bad
BB: Bad

River:

EP: I am not sure if I would call this after having been check-raised on the Flop and Turn, of course I guess he sort of has to considering how big he has let the pot become by staying in. Also if I know the BB plays this maniacally every hand then I am definitely calling here.
BB: Good (considerng the way he played it on the other streets)

So, like Crockpot said, the EP played the hand better.

-Brian

[pokertronic]

[ QUOTE ]
5-10 hold em, table is typical.

An aggressive player in EP raises pre-flop with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif Q /images/graemlins/club.gif, MP cold calls and BB complete with
8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif4 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Flop T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif7 /images/graemlins/diamond.gifK /images/graemlins/club.gif

BB checks, Aggressive player bets, MP calls, BB check-raises and all call.

Turn 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

BB checks, Aggressive bets, MP folds, BB checkraises, Aggressive calls

River Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

BB bets and Aggressive calls.

Who played worse?

[/ QUOTE ]

easily the BB, imo

[salty]

I agree with the others that the BB should have mucked but for arguments sake Im going to throw this in the mix.

the BB is only really throwing in one bet to the other guys two,and recently Ive read a few threads and essays about defending your blinds.Id hate to think that the BB would call this hand often but in this case he might have called because when you get a preflop raise from EP you are certainly up against a big hand and if the flop comes with rags you know that the BB is in trouble unless hes in with a big pair,he checkraised the EP and the EP did not come back over the top,ie you can rule out AK and the bb has a 9 outer.On the turn Im still not liking the BBs check raise but maybe hes thought about it after EP has bet and MP has folded and said Ive got 13 outs now why not stick in another raise.

I think the EP messed up by not representing the AK while in the cheap streets and putting the pressure back on the BB.He might have even bought himself a free card.What was the BBs table image? was this a strange move by him?

thats my two cents.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
the BB is only really throwing in one bet to the other guys two,and recently Ive read a few threads and essays about defending your blinds.

[/ QUOTE ]

It's one thing to be defending your blinds against a raise from a button who is a habitual stealer(which this is still too loose), but defending against an EP raise with 84s with only one other player in the pot is a pretty big mistake.

[ QUOTE ]
I think the EP messed up by not representing the AK while in the cheap streets and putting the pressure back on the BB.He might have even bought himself a free card.


[/ QUOTE ]
Representing AK isn't going to do any good here + he had the free card and bet anyway.

[salty]

Im not neccessarily agreeing with this play,the reason i mentioned him re raising the check raise is because the BB is asking a question of him with the chk raise and hes is answering it saying Im still drawing.

Like I said I was throwing something into the mix,I do tho think that the calling of the check raise provided good info to the BB who might be a decent player (although that does seem doubtful by his initial call).

I had a situation recently when i pre flop raised AA and the flop came with rags (highest card a 10) it got checked to me and i bet then got check raised so I called.The turn was a blank and the chk raiser bet I called then a 10 fell on the river,the chk raiser bet i called and he had 10 ?

We had already spoken so I asked him what was up with the chk raise and he said "I wanted to see where i was".My mistake here was to imagine he had flopped 2pr or a set and not re raise him to see where i was.It is a play I have since used and have at times folded the initial chk raiser.In this scenario if they then play back at you it is decision time.

One of the problems with the EP betting out again is that the BB has picked up more outs and is now just in the pot with the EP who he knows is still drawing to a big hand.

We both know that the BB has got very lucky in this situation and normally would be down his blind and bet.

[salty]

Sorry i re read the initial post again and the BB has a double gutshot on the turn and a flush draw giving him a whopping 17 outs

[DarkKnight]

MP and Agrressive player

[pokertronic]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry i re read the initial post again and the BB has a double gutshot on the turn and a flush draw giving him a whopping 17 outs

[/ QUOTE ]

duh, missed that. still dont like the preflop cold call here. still dont like 2 checkraises...

[Brian]

Hi Salty,

I missed the double gutshot draw as well. Check-raising the Turn is a fine play here. However it's only 15 outs, not 17.

-Brian

[Nottom]

But there is a big difference between AA and A-high, habitually overplaying AK or AQ can only get you in trouble.

[Nottom]

Actually in this case its 21 ... but he doesn't know that.