I'm not playing limit. Repeat...I'm not playing limit...I'm not...

[Rick Nebiolo]

This hand comes from tonight's 5-5 blind $200 minimum buy in pot limit holdem game.

I have about $350 and most of the table is deeper then me. Since I'm a rookie PL and NL player I'm willing to play the short stack at this point. I'd say my image is about what it is supposed to be, that being of a tightish limit player who is just dabbling at pot limit and doesn't have quite enough "cojones" (sp?) and perhaps brains. The game is very good, with quite a bit of live straddles, unwarrented action and only a couple of rocks.

I'm UTG holding Ad-Qd and open raise the max of $20. I get called by a tricky, aggressive action player (TAAP) two to my left who is well aware I come from the limit world. Another player calls from the middle as does the big blind. The pot is $85.

The flop comes 6d-4d-3d a.k.a. the nuts not counting straight flushes. The small blind checks and I put in a typical bet of $60 (most of my bets tend to be about 70 to 80% of the pot size) and pray I get called. I considered checking but felt in order to win some money I need to bet the flop. After all, even a rookie wimp like me is going to bet an overpair so I have a a good chance of getting some action at least on the flop.

First question: Should I check the flop after open raising UTG?

TAAP calls, the middle player folds, and the SB stares me down before folding (I think I need to use sunglasses). The pot is now $205, I have about $$270 left, and TAAP has me well covered.

The turn comes a Js.

Second question: What is my best course of action for the turn and river?

Results below.

Regards,

Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

I bet about $120 of my $270 stack into the $205 pot. TAAP thought about it a while and folded.

In retrospect, I believe checking was the far superior play given my image, my opponent, the size of the pot, and my stack size.

If I check there is a good chance my opponent makes a pot or near pot size bet. It is far more likely he makes this bet after I check than calls my decent size bet, which looks to him like a trapping bet. OTOH, he just has to think I'd bet AK or a non diamond overpair on the flop but be the type not to follow through on the turn. In other words, I have to relaize that he will think he can push me out if I show weakness on the turn.

The other thing to remember is that even if he checks behind on the turn, I have a chance to get most of my money in on the river. In limit you get the money in when you can, and when you can is usually on the turn.

But I'm not playing limit /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

~ Rick

[crockpot]

i think a check here has two big advantages:

- he may bluff (or semi-bluff drawing dead) if you check but would release the hand if you bet again
- if he takes a free card and hits, you can extract money from him on the river

were i to bet, i think my plan would be to make a pretty small bet that looks like a total sign of weakness. tricky and aggressive players pounce on these, especially when they think their opponents are "limit players".

[ML4L]

Hey Rick,

The flop bet is mandatory. If it were NLHE instead of PLHE, I suppose MAYBE you could check, but I think that betting out and hoping to be raised would be the best course of action even in NL...

I would check-raise all-in on the turn. I think that the chances of him betting/bluffing here if checked to are above average. And, it's still a good play even if he checks behind, because your checking the turn means that he is more likely to pay off a river bet (if he checks behind, I would bet half the pot on the river, provided that that is a reasonable bet size compared to the river bets that you had been making). It is also doubtful that a free card could hurt you because if he has a hand that can outdraw yours, he will almost surely bet the turn, allowing you check-raise.

Hope it worked out...

ML4L

[Al_Capone_Junior]

[ QUOTE ]
First question: Should I check the flop after open raising UTG?


[/ QUOTE ]

Of course the answer is "it depends." But I would tend to go with what you would normally do, at least normally being in the minds of your opponents. If they think you'd bet any flop after you raised, then bet about the pot, like you did. Only if you suspect deception will win you more should you check. If you think you can sell your flush for more by pretending you're afraid of diamonds, then check, but I suspect that deception will cost you more than you can make off of it in this situation.

Using sunglasses is a viable option. I use them mostly so non-pro players don't notice me staring them down, but I suppose occasionally it might keep an observant player from seeing my pupils get big when the fourth ten hits (or something). You need good eyesight tho, otherwise they can be a liability. Also, don't get red lenses, they make hearts look like diamonds.

I would bet again on the turn, something from 1/3-2/3 the pot. If he called once, he might be drawing, or even have a worse flush, so you might as well bet again.

al

[tewall]

What do people think about raising UTG with AQs in this game?

[limon]

given your image you will elicit a bluff 100% of the time from those TAAP's at HP. They're gunning 4 you. Then you caome back over the top in outlandish fashion. they have to remember it...they have to remember a check doesnt mean you're weak.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
What do people think about raising UTG with AQs in this game?

[/ QUOTE ]

One thing about this game is that my full raise UTG will kill my action only a small percentage of the time. Getting three callers UTG was typical "unreraised" action, and someone with a looser image might get more callers. Often you are facing a pot size reraise from medium pairs, especially if they think they can push you off hands (which to a certain extent they can - for now.

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

I agree (see the results). Right now I'm playing short sessions at pot limit, usually after a several hours of play at yellow chip. At this point I don't feel I have much game, hence the small buy in ($300). However, working your way up to the third or fourth best player in the game just has to be plus EV, unless I'm missing more then I think or I'm the one who makes the game +EV for everybody else /images/graemlins/grin.gif

~ Rick

[tewall]

I wasn't concerned about your action being killed, but by your being out of position with what's basically a drawing hand. I don't know how bad the players are, however.

[Rick Nebiolo]

[ QUOTE ]
Using sunglasses is a viable option. I use them mostly so non-pro players don't notice me staring them down, but I suppose occasionally it might keep an observant player from seeing my pupils get big when the fourth ten hits (or something). You need good eyesight tho, otherwise they can be a liability. Also, don't get red lenses, they make hearts look like diamonds.



[/ QUOTE ]

I might need to upgrade my contact lens script first. I've mistaken many a club for a spade lately, and that is without sunglasses.

If I wasn't so vain I'd go for that Humberto Brenes look, with the sunglasses on the inside and the reading glasses at the tip of the nose. I've got those cheap readers all over my house these days. Getting old is starting to suck.

~ Rick

[Rick Nebiolo]

In limit you often get the bets in on the turn, especially by a semi-bluffer. If you don't get them then, you are limited in how much you can pick up on the river.

In this game I agree that checking the turn (with him checking behind) often means you can still get some on the river.

BTW, if I checked the turn and he checked behind and a diamond (that was my suit I think) comes on the river, checking again is probably the right play. I can't see him checking behind twice after I show weakness twice.

Regards,

Rick