Super System

I'll be taking a month off from work (changing jobs), and I've been thinking of purchasing Brunson's Super System to read and study during my time off. When I play no-limit, it is mostly in tournaments, but occasionally in ring games. Three questions:


(1) How helpful is the book? I've heard some say it is the best no-limit book ever, others say the book is dated because the game has changed over time. What are people's opinions of the quality of the book.


(2) Does the book talk at all about tournament strategy or is it only concerned with ring-game poker?


(3) I saw on amazon.com that a soft-cover edition will be printed in November. Does anyone know if the new version will be updated or contain new material, or whether it will be a straight reprint? If there are no updates coming, I will probably buy the hardbound now so that I can study during my month off. If there is new material coming in the new edition, I'll probably wait.


Here's the amazon link if anyone is interested.


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1580420818/qid=1027548194/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-4595223-2802315

(1) My no-limit play is limited to a few small tournaments, so I can't really say with authority that S/S is definitive, or that it is dated. S/S as a whole is quite dated, because many of the games have changed. Limit hold'em is played with two blinds instead of one. High-low spot is played with a qualifier. Draw and lowball are rarities nowadays. The stud section holds up. One thing that has changed about no-limit hold'em is that everyone who is serious about the game has read S/S.


(2) S/S is definitely geared towards cash games. Tournaments were a once-a-year thing when S/S was written. They are now weekly, even daily occurrences at many card rooms. So that's another change between no-limit hold'em as it was played in 1977 and no-limit hold'em as it is played today: most of today' no-limit hold'em is played in a tournament environment.


(3) I think I read on this forum that the alleged reprinting is not going to happen any time soon, as there is an ample supply of the latest hardcover edition laying around. S/S is very unlikely to get revised. The original edition was a massive undertaking, and it took Doyle a while to recover his investment. Much of it would have to be completely revised. There would have to be new sections on Omaha/8, pot-limit Omaha, Pineapple, etc. Joey Hawthorne is dead, and I have the impression that Bobby Baldwin and David Sklansky are busy people. Definitely buy it now while you have some time on your hands.


If you're serious about big-bet poker, you should get the Ciaffone/Reuben book. I've just started reading it, and I think it's better than S/S. It's certainly easier to read. Doyle does tend to ramble. I am continually amazed by the reluctance of poker authors to find real editors.

I agree with Andy B. Ciaffone/Reuben is a great book.


1- IMO, Doyle Brunson is the greatest no limit CASH player. A careful read of his book is very useful, no matter if his concepts are dated. His concepts are the key for a winning no-limit poker.


2- As Andy posted, the book is related to cash games.


Don't know about your third point.


Marco

List Price: $29.95

Our Price: $20.97

You Save: $8.98 (30%)


I paid 49.95 + shipping just a year ago. To buy this book for 20.97 is a steal!!!!!

This is just an opinion, but I would be very doubtful that you will see a papaerback version unless Mike Caro has given the book to a different publisher. Perhaps someone can contact Caro and get the real answer.


The reason I say this is that frequently on the Amazon.com pages some of the information that appears is wrong. I know that hard cover editions of a couple of our titles appear on Amazon and these editions don't exist and have never existed. I suspect that this may also be the case with Super/System.


MM

I decided I didn't want to wait any longer so I bought the hardcover version. I also ordered Caro's "guide to supersystem," which is copyright '97. He says in it he and Doyle were talking about revising it around 1995, and toyed with the idea of calling it SuperSystem 2000 until they both realized they wouldn't get it done that soon. I guess they lost interest. I can see how it would be a heck of a lot of work. I wonder if they could really add much new that hasn't been added in other books since, also. While reading the limit section last night by Bobby Baldwin (for hold 'em), I noticed how, good though it was, it was no different than the "more modern" advice given in today's hold 'em books, and is in fact a good deal simpler. If you have read HPFAP and some other books you won't find anything new here. But it is good to get hit with the same thing from a different angle. I know nothing about no limit and haven't read it yet. I would think the Reuben/Ciaffone and Cloutier/McEvoy no limit books build on it, though, as the book has influenced so many people since. Again, probably you'd just get it from a different angle, but that can be worth it.

I did notice in his limit section, Baldwin said some things that made me raise my eyebrows, like go ahead and play unsuited hands like 9-6 and 10-7 on the button if everyone is in for one bet. I know of no current Hold 'em book that would advocate this, were those just simpler and less researched times, or what? He advised in another spot to sometimes RERAISE a raiser and a bunch of cold callers with a hand like 9-8 suited on the button, because they probably all have big cards and if you get your kind of flop, you will win a monster. This seems a little dubious also. Just wondered if anyone thought some of the limit advice was a little out of line. He is a great player so how would I know. I would think limit games are tougher now though, maybe you could do stuff like that then and get away with it?


Tim

A lot of the advice in there is not right in the modern game. The blind structure is different now which has made a huge difference. Preflop implied odds were different then with no raise. 3-betting was cheaper too. Comparing the old structure with now highlights some concepts that apply to all games IMO.