Do you see the crap we have to put up with?

[Gamblor]

Mahathir: Jews Rule the World (http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/southeast/10/16/oic.mahathir/index.html)

And this is by the Prime Minister. A presumably educated man.

And you wonder why Israel is serious about Islamic and Arab "freedom fighters"?

Freedom fighters my ass.

The highlight:

He said: "They invented socialism, communism, human rights and democracy, so that persecuting them would appear to be wrong , so that they can enjoy equal rights with others.

Oh, and did anyone notice that the PA managed to round up the suspected attackers of the US convoy in Gaza almost instantly (http://edition.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/10/16/mideast.blast/index.html), but for some reason can't seem to find and arrest the groups that have planned thousands of suicide bombings in Tel Aviv pizza parlours?

Seems like someone is courting the American government.

[MMMMMM]

Courting or fearing, anyway.

If Hamas commenced regular attacks upon U.S. forces or installations, Hamas would be wiped out in Palestine, regardless of whatever restraint the U.S. has historically urged on Israel.

Note how fast Hamas denied responsibility for this attack.

We wouldn't stand for it and I think they know it.

[nicky g]

Matahir is a moron and a tyrant. Thank God he's on his way out. It's a shame Western governements gave him so much support during his years of power.

[Gamblor]

Matahir is a moron and a tyrant. Thank God he's on his way out. It's a shame Western governements gave him so much support during his years of power.

One day you'll say the same about Assad, Mubarak, Hussein, and most especially Arafat himself. They're morons, they're tyrants, and it's a shame Western governments gave them support.

[nicky g]

What are you talking about? I say that now. That's exactly my position.

[nicky g]

Altough I don't remember Assad getting significant Western support. But maybe he did.

[ACPlayer]

Some of us already say that about Sharon and wish people like Rabin were in power in Israel.

[Gamblor]

I would hardly call Sharon a tyrant.

He keeps his people safe. All of them, even the Arab Israelis.

The mentality of the Likud party, and its forerunner the Herut, is based on Ze'ev Jabotinsky's teachings in Italy. No matter what peace arrangements are made, you never know what an enemy will do. Basically, that the only way to ensure safety against enemies, is to secure land that can be defended by natural borders. For Israel, this is the Jordan River in the east, the Gulf of Aqaba in the south, and the mountains of the Galille in the north.

Sharon's platform does not include the oppression of anyone, but rather the formation of safe, secure borders.

[andyfox]

Jabotinksy recognized that the Palestinians were on the land and would not accept Zionist occupation and dominance. But he felt, like the mainstream Zionist movement, that Zionism's cause trumped all others. So too bad for the Palestinians, welcome to the Iron Wall.

While the mainstream marginalized Jabotinksy and tried to do so with his intellecutal heirs (such as Begin), their tratement of the Palestinians was essentially no different than Jabotinksy advocated.

But there's plenty of blame for the current situation to go around to all sides. With plenty to spare. The challenge is to not forget history, but to try to get past it by no longer making blame for history the essence of policy for the future. Neither the Palenstinians nor the Israelis are willing to do this.

[Gamblor]

You are skirting the issue that the only way to survive is by establishing safe, secure borders. Sorry, but as much as I love everyone, my survival, and more importantly the survival of my people, is more important to me than your survival.

If you tell me you care more about everyone else's survival than your own, you are a liar.

When someone wants you dead, sorry, peace is not an option.
Peace requires both parties to be interested whatever the negotiations involve.

I don't believe the Palestinian Arab leadership are interested. If the people are, then figure out a way to find new leaders.

As for Israel, I can assure you it wants peace. The Israelis have made peace (however tentative). Palestinians have never signed a peace deal with anyone. Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, anyone.