[Hard session hands] Last few.

[1800GAMBLER]

Hand 5:

Against an aggressive 2+2er. I played this wrong on every possible street.

2+2er openraises in the CO for his standard 3 times the blinds. I trapcall with A /images/graemlins/heart.gif K /images/graemlins/heart.gif. #1 mistake. Rest fold.

Flop:

4 /images/graemlins/club.gif 2 /images/graemlins/club.gif 4 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

CO checks. I pot bet, $70. CO checkraises and raises to $210. I fold. #mistake 2.

Hand 6:

This is the most complex hand. Against the 2+2er again.

The 2+2er started to run over me just before hand 5 and did it very well in hand 5. He was raising most of the pots i limped (about 4) even though i was playing tight, it was 50/50 if i called or folded the hand. He has also never given up his blind to me. He's aggressively tricky and very hard to read.

I've also so far only lead out the missed flop after a preflop raise around 20% which is a lot less than my usual. So i'm being very close to honest on my flop betting.

I open raise for $20 (mistake i know, blame the scroll bar) on the button with QTo, he protects.

Flop:

2 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 4 /images/graemlins/heart.gif T /images/graemlins/club.gif

He bets out for $50 (the pot). I raise to $150. He raises with $400. I push all in for $700. So he would have to call $300 into the $1300 pot. He auto folded without thought.

This hard the cards/poker doesn't seem to matter it just seems to be a past history and pyschology game.

Hand 7:

Here's a hand i'll post just for a break in thought and to show why i am sitting at these high stakes with some of the best players i've played with ever.

I get QQ in MP 6 handed and limp to the 2+2er (yes it has got that bad of him running over me). He makes it $40. Weak Player on the BB calls. I limpreraise for $160. 2+2er folds and i'm heads up with the Weak Player on the BB.

Flop:

9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 8 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 8 /images/graemlins/spade.gif

He checkcalls all in for his remainning $100 with A6o and gets no help from the board.


Meanwhile i just dropped $800 to the 2+2er when my AA meets his 77 when he flopped his set. I ran into the trap of wanting to get action on my AA and only raised preflop to 3 blinds. He on the other hand played it perfectly and doubled up.

Good job us 2+2ers have that policy of giving all BBs won back to each to each other. /images/graemlins/wink.gif (PS: I'm joking before PrimaPoker reads this and bans me)

Hand 8:

5 handed. 2 good players 2 bad. Yet somehow i'm always in the pot with the good players. They don't seem to be isolating me though.

I raise to $40 with AKo UTG. The BB (the aggressive player who is loose calling preflop raises, he is pretty loose in hands also. Spoke about in Hand 1).

Flop:

9 /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

He checkcalls my bet of $90.

Turn:

Q /images/graemlins/heart.gif

He checkcalls my bet of $260.

River:

7 /images/graemlins/club.gif

He folds to my bet of $400 (just short of my all in) in the pot of $800.

[Jon Matthews]

Hand 8

Well done getting the fold on the river, I suppose you had a good idea that this guy would check call with anything to trap you when he hit. I would have a lot of trouble making a 1/2 pot bet for 400 with ace high there and probably checked behind.

[1800GAMBLER]

If the 2+2er does read this, care to say what you held in hand 6? Thanks.

[Guy McSucker]

Hands 5 and 6 are the interesting ones to me, but there's very little one can say about them since you had to be there really. I will babble a little; hope some of it is interesting.

With the AK, I wouldn't think of your flat call as trapping, more as seeing what develops before getting too committed with no pair... I don't think it's a mistake anyway. I also don't think folding to the check-raise is a mistake, because it will cost you a lot of $$$ to find out if your ace-high is good, so why push it?

With the QT, well, I'd have a hard time putting in the third raise with just top pair, but it came off, so that's great. I noticed something though: here your enemy is clearly weaker than his betting represents, so it's likely he was trying to push you out of the pot, perhaps with a marginal holding, perhaps not. Anyway, the key point is that he led out on the flop, which is of course what you would do if you want to push the preflop raiser out.

In the other hand he check-raised, which is a very dangerous and more expensive way of trying to push someone off their hand. I would tend to believe he had something better than AK here.

On hand 8, did you have some kind of read? Are you value betting the AK? Or bluffing? Or just pushing buttons? I ask these questions because it looks very unlikely that he'll fold, having called decent bets on three streets. I can't imagine what is going through this man's head. Nice outcome for you, though!

One niggle: please mention stack sizes. You know it's important. And yes I realise I can reconstruct the stacks in some of the hands because you mention all-in etc., but why make your reader go to all that trouble?

Guy.

[1800GAMBLER]

First of all, THANK YOU. I need yourself, crock, Al in these posts. I'm just lost when my edge of known poker cards goes and it becomes about pyschology.

This is were the problems start with this:

' Anyway, the key point is that he led out on the flop, which is of course what you would do if you want to push the preflop raiser out.'

Now, i'm an experienced poker player and he should know that. Which means to push me out a checkraise would have more chance of pushing me out.

Dam. My method of replying to a post is to read a line each by each, so you just covered my post with:

'In the other hand he check-raised, which is a very dangerous and more expensive way of trying to push someone off their hand. I would tend to believe he had something better than AK here.'

Last note: I'll fully reply to these posts - i want to and owe to - tomorrow, it's 1am at the moment and i'm in bad shape. I should include stack sizes and pot sizes but stack sizes were pretty similar throughout the hands. If i thought they were important in my decision in the hand i'd throw them in; but as i said i was lost in these hands so i should have included them.


So gimme 12 hours and i'll fully reply, sorry.

[1800GAMBLER]

Hand 5 i think is a bad play preflop, chances are i am leading against his heavy preflop raises and the advantages of reraising compared to trapping with AK are better due to the missing the flop 2/3.

The only problem is against a tricky aggressive player i'm stuck if he puts in a lot of chips postflop when i miss. That's going to be doubtful though since i'm playing the hand like JJ QQ KK AA AK.

I think my bet was a mistake if i knew i'd fold to a checkraise. He was bound to checkraise my bet thinking i am bluffing and knowning i missed that board, when infact i'd expect to me sometimes value betting.

'Anyway, the key point is that he led out on the flop, which is of course what you would do if you want to push the preflop raiser out. '

Not really, when i flop a monster against a good player i always lead out and wait for the raise.

Hand 8. I thought i represent the queen if not larger. That ten pair is looking scared after all this action. I'd expect most players to take a river bet convincing that i liked that queen. Other than a JQ draw i can be pretty sure he doesn't have it. I think i was pretty potsized drunk in the hand to let it go passing. Normally i'd give up betting on the turn but the queen card was too nice.

Thanks for replying.

[tewall]

Hand 5 I would raise unless the money was very deep. Once you called, though, I would (often) have bet, since the flop could easily have hit you. Actually on this exact flop, maybe not, since it's hard to see what you would have where that flop would hit you (other than maybe 22), but the idea is why not bet out since you just called, and then he checked to you. Now if he will often check-raise, then call with more hands and just check behind him taking the free card.

Hand 6 was interesting. My only comment is regarding the comment you made elsewhere in the thread that you "always lead out with a strong hand". I hope that's not true. I agree that it's good to generally lead out, but not always.

Hand 8 is interesting. The pot was offering him 3 to 1 at the end. I wonder what he had that he thought he could call you twice and then fold to a half-pot bet?

Charging ahead like this with AK I think is a sure fire way to lose money, unless you have a read on this guy or this was an unusual play. After all, that's your most likely hand.

[1800GAMBLER]

Hand 5. Not reraising preflop was a mistake, a very large mistake. I think he checked to me for the same reasons you are giving me for betting though.

Hand 6. If i always lead out 100% of the time and 80% of the time take the pot it's a good play. The only problem with this play is when the winrate drops below 80% because the other players aren't idiots. If the hand was TK i would have no problem taking a stand against this player in this situation. TQ is my borderline, but he is cappable of folding TK here himself.

Hand 8. 78 Tx are my likely possibilities of his holdings. I'd be unlucky if i ran into JQ. Normally this is a nice way to lose money with AK, but i did like my chances on this board.

Thank you again.

[tewall]

"Hand 6. If i always lead out 100% of the time and 80% of the time take the pot it's a good play. The only problem with this play is when the winrate drops below 80% because the other players aren't idiots."

I don't understand what you're saying here. I was talking about very strong hands, something like trips. This was the context of the comment you made elsewhere in the thread where you said you always lead out with a hand like that. This would be a mistake because anytime you check your opponent can eliminate your possible holdings.

I can't remember why I posted this comment on this hand since you're not leading out at all here. Maybe it's because of the comment you made about not leading out when the flop misses you. Anyway something made me think about it at the time. The point is not to play in a way that gives away absolute information about your hand. You can't avoid giving clues, but you always want your opponents to have some doubt as to what you have, especially doubt involving the possibility of your having a monster.

Anyway back to the 80% number. If you bet the pot, you only need to win 50% of your bets to break even. Also you wrote that you've cut down to betting 20% or less of the flops you miss. That's not a pct. you should be concerned with. You should be concerned with the pct. of the time you bluff vs. the pct. of time you bet a legitamate hand and how often your opponents call your bets. I'll elaborate if you wish.

[1800GAMBLER]

Relooking back over it, i've mixed by math up. I know t only need a bluffing frequency success rate of 50% when i pot bet, for some reason i put 80% maybe i was reading and typing and mindslipped.