jew/palestinian genetics

[brad]

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=jew++genetic+difference+scientific+paper& hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=3c033562_1%40news.tm.net.my&rnum=1

Received this:

[Comment: Interesting.. What IS a Jew?

Apparently lots of people who call themselves Jews today are not of Middle
Eastern origin at all. They are of Russian decent who converted centuries ago.
They are
culturally Jewish, but not genetically of the line.

Many black Americans are genetically of African origin, but there may have
been no Islamic culture in their history. Adoption of Islamic roots may
well be a cultural romanticization .

And then there is Whoopi Goldberg.....]



Paper Showing Jews/Palestinians Are Almost Genetic Identicals Axed
By Robin McKie
Science Editor
The Observer - London

A keynote research paper showing that Middle Eastern Jews and Palestinians are
genetically almost identical has been pulled from a leading journal.

Academics who have already received copies of Human Immunology have been urged
to rip out the offending pages and throw them away.

Such a drastic act of self-censorship is unprecedented in research publishing
and has created widespread disquiet, generating fears that it may involve the
suppression of scientific work that questions Biblical dogma.

'I have authored several hundred scientific papers, some for Nature and Science,
and this has never happened to me before,' said the article's lead author,
Spanish geneticist Professor Antonio Arnaiz-Villena, of Complutense University
in Madrid. 'I am stunned.'

British geneticist Sir Walter Bodmer added: 'If the journal didn't like the
paper, they shouldn't have published it in the first place. Why wait until it
has appeared before acting like this?'

The journal's editor, Nicole Sucio-Foca, of Columbia University, New York,
claims the article provoked such a welter of complaints over its extreme
political writing that she was forced to repudiate it. The article has been
removed from Human Immunology's website, while letters have been written to
libraries and universities throughout the world asking them to ignore or
'preferably to physically remove the relevant pages'. Arnaiz-Villena has been
sacked from the journal's editorial board.

Dolly Tyan, president of the American Society of Histocompatibility and
Immunogenetics, which runs the journal, told subscribers that the society is
'offended and embarrassed'.

The paper, 'The Origin of Palestinians and their Genetic Relatedness with other
Mediterranean Populations', involved studying genetic variations in immune
system genes among people in the Middle East.

In common with earlier studies, the team found no data to support the idea that
Jewish people were genetically distinct from other people in the region. In
doing so, the team's research challenges claims that Jews are a special, chosen
people and that Judaism can only be inherited.

Jews and Palestinians in the Middle East share a very similar gene pool and must
be considered closely related and not genetically separate, the authors state.
Rivalry between the two races is therefore based 'in cultural and religious, but
not in genetic differences', they conclude.

But the journal, having accepted the paper earlier this year, now claims the
article was politically biased and was written using 'inappropriate' remarks
about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Its editor told the journal Nature last
week that she was threatened by mass resignations from members if she did not
retract the article.

Arnaiz-Villena says he has not seen a single one of the accusations made against
him, despite being promised the opportunity to look at the letters sent to the
journal.

He accepts he used terms in the article that laid him open to criticism. There
is one reference to Jewish 'colonists' living in the Gaza strip, and another
that refers to Palestinian people living in 'concentration' camps.

'Perhaps I should have used the words settlers instead of colonists, but really,
what is the difference?' he said.

'And clearly, I should have said refugee, not concentration, camps, but given
that I was referring to settlements outside of Israel - in Syria and Lebanon -
that scarcely makes me anti-Jewish. References to the history of the region, the
ones that are supposed to be politically offensive, were taken from the
Encyclopaedia Britannica, and other text books.'

In the wake of the journal's actions, and claims of mass protests about the
article, several scientists have now written to the society to support
Arnaiz-Villena and to protest about their heavy-handedness.

One of them said: 'If Arnaiz-Villena had found evidence that Jewish people were
genetically very special, instead of ordinary, you can be sure no one would have
objected to the phrases he used in his article. This is a very sad business.'

http://www.observer.co.uk/international/story/0%2C6903%2C605798%2C00.html


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[Wake up CALL]

Just now getting around to reading this brad? The stack of newspapers in your house must be getting pretty high by now.

[brad]

ok in pnac rebuilding americas defenses its page 60, left hand side,

discussing ethnic bioweapons,

'And advanced forms of biological warfare that can “target” specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.'

a politically useful tool. i see.

[brad]

no my buddy chris alger said i was a lunatic to believe this, and a lunatic to believe about the race specific bioweapons.


so i thought i would document it for him, since hes a pretty smart guy and probably just hadnt ever heard of this before.

[Chris Alger]

I don't recall calling you a lunatic (I don't think you are), and I'm sure I've never encountered the phrase "race specific bioweapons" until now. Sounds like another good prohibition starving for support from the only superpower.

[Chris Alger]

So all that stuff about "Israelites" and "Ishmaelites" is unscientific, and the differences between Palestinians and Jews are more poltical and cultural than biological and genetic? Stop the presses.

I can't find the Human Immunology article anywhere on the net, but if he said that Jewish settlers in Gaza are "colonists," he's right. If he said that Palestinians in refugee camps are in concentration camps, he's wrong (so far, and anyway he's not that far off). But suppressing an otherwise sound scientific paper on the grounds it contained political shorthand that wasn't supported by the "data presented" seems extreme.

I suspect that what pushed the editors over the edge was that "concentration camp" is too close to "extermination camp;" some people don't make the distinction. But a correction should have sufficed. To say that the plight of the Palestinians under Isreali occupation is comparable to the plight of the Jews under Nazi Germany is as absurd and offensive as using the holocaust to justify Israeli mistreatment of Palestinians. To identify similarities in the ideology and attitude of Nazis, Zionists, Islamicists or any other group is perfectly fair.

[Cyrus]

ising is that it's not new and it won't go away.

"If he said that Jewish settlers in Gaza are "colonists," he's right."

We are all "colonists", as a matter of fact. The thing is, this gotta stop! More important things on our table.

[Chris Alger]

[Gamblor]

Everything is correct except for the last sentence.

The ideology of Zionism has nothing to do with murdering anyone.

In Zionism, Jews are not "superior", as Nazis held the Aryan race.

Zionism - is just that - a return of Jews to Zion and to rebuild the "kingdom" there - the only time in history Jews have controlled their own affairs, from government on down. Nothing else. And to read any more into it is "absurd"

[Rushmore]

In Zionism, Jews are not "superior", as Nazis held the Aryan race.

I haven't got time to search the archives, but not one month ago you asserted that Jews are "The Chosen People," and that this is an integral part of the race/religion. In fact, your tone was such that it appeared this verbiage was intended to indicate an understanding of this or that transgression.

I can only assume that chosen by God would denote some element of superiority.

[Chris Alger]

"The ideology of Zionism has nothing to do with murdering anyone."

No, that's the practice of Zionism, and that's a stretch because no one has been killed unless they lived in the wrong place or failed to follow orders.

"In Zionism, Jews are not "superior", as Nazis held the Aryan race."

Correct, but Zionists tend to purport that Jews have vastly superior -- many of them say exclusive -- political rights to the former Palestine. These claims are similar from other claims by other imperialist nations, and similar to Nazi claims for Germans in Eastern Europe and elsewhere. After all, Zionism was a colonial scheme born in the golden age of imperialism, so what else would we expect?

[Chris Alger]

"I can only assume that chosen by God would denote some element of superiority."

I suppose some Jews probably succumb to this ubiquitious weakness because of the "chosen people" idea, but I'm pretty sure that there's nothing about Judaism that requires a feeling or ideology of "superiority" over any one, at least in any political or other meaningful sense.

[Gamblor]

These claims are similar from other claims by other imperialist nations, and similar to Nazi claims for Germans in Eastern Europe and elsewhere.

How can you call a little country in the middle of bumfuck nowhere an imperialist nation? It's 6 million people! What are they going to conquer outside the Jordan? Do you think a single Israeli is interested in conquering anything outside its small slice of the earth?

And Muslims have a vastly superior claim to Saudi Arabia. Or are Muslims not a nation? By virtue of Mecca and Medina alone I would give it to them.

No, that's the practice of Zionism, and that's a stretch because no one has been killed unless they lived in the wrong place or failed to follow orders.

Or tried to kill a Zionist. Merely living in the wrong place? Give one example of a "massacre" that didn't start as an attempt to root out terrorists. Perhaps a Palestinian apologist would care to make something up a la Jenin. Failed to follow orders? When your only order is: If you try to kill me, you're not welcome here, I don't see how you can be wrong.

Your people have not been kicked around for 3000 years, so maybe your mentality is different. Because your kind have been on top so long, you have a nice happy view of everyone getting along. But for those of us not fortunate enough to have been born a WASP, it's a battle for survival, every day. Zionism knew that. The Likud are a incarnation of Betar - disciples of Ze'ev Jabotinsky, who realized that the only way to ensure survival is territorial maximization. And this is about survival, whether you believe it or not.

But dismiss this with another witicism. It serves your purpose of maintaining your "moral" upturned nose.

After all, Zionism was a colonial scheme born in the golden age of imperialism, so what else would we expect?

And what was the mother country of this "colony"? 3500 years ago was a colony as well, I assume?

[Gamblor]

Not superiority.

Special, but equal.

Everyone is equal.

The very first commandment in the entire Torah is as follows:

Since god created man in his image, no Jew may harm any other human being, unless in self-defence, so as not to deface God's image.

And the only reason self-defence is included, is because a dead person does no good deeds. A living person can do many.

[Gamblor]

More important things on our table.

Maybe on your table, my countrymen are being shot, bombed, stabbed, and kidnapped.

[nicky g]

"Or tried to kill a Zionist. Merely living in the wrong place? Give one example of a "massacre" that didn't start as an attempt to root out terrorists."

Deir Yassin.

[Gamblor]

Regarding Deir Yassin:

Contrary to revisionist histories that the town was filled with peaceful innocents, residents and foreign troops opened fire on the attackers. One fighter described his experience:
My unit stormed and passed the first row of houses. I was among the first to enter the village. There were a few other guys with me, each encouraging the other to advance. At the top of the street I saw a man in khaki clothing running ahead. I thought he was one of ours. I ran after him and told him, "advance to that house." Suddenly he turned around, aimed his rifle and shot. He was an Iraqi soldier. I was hit in the foot.[1]

That should take care of the "not rooting out terrorists" notion.

In addition, The New York Times' subsequent description of the battle said more than 200 Arabs were killed, 40 captured and 70 women and children were released. No hint of a massacre appeared in the report.[2]

That should take care of the massacre notion.

Despite the Jewish Agency's apology, the only group to ever claim that there was a massacre was the Arab Committee.

[1] Uri Milstein, History of Israel's War of Independence. Vol. IV, (Lanham: University Press of America. 1999), p. 262

[2] Dan Kurzman, Genesis 1948, (OH: New American Library, Inc., 1970), p. 141.

[nicky g]

a. Whether the soldier's story is true or not, the town had a right to defend itself.

b. There was ample evidence of a massacre in Deir Yassin, whether the NYT reported it or not. Are you seriously contending there was no massacre? Even some Zionist leaders at the time condemned it.

[Gamblor]

The Jewish Agency condemned the massacre assuming it had happened to appease the Arabs in hopes of peace.

This assumes it did, in fact happen.

The reason the route was needed, is because of the Arab siege on the Jewish quarter of the Old City and the Jewish neighbourhoods in Jerusalem. For half a year not a single supply was allowed into the Jewish Quarter. The road that passed by Deir Yassin was a route for food from Tel Aviv to solve the massive food shortage in Jerusalem that mysteriously only affected Jewish inhabitants.

Arabs based in Deir Yassin repeatedly launched attacks on Jewish civilian convoys travelling from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem. The Irgun (Begin's movement) was entrusted to open up the road to allow Jews to get to Jerusalem. That highway was the only route to Jerusalem. Hence the attack in the first place. They were terrorists there.

[Rushmore]

But what about the Canaanites? Don't they figure into any of this?

Just curious.

[Chris Alger]

Sad, but they're being held hostage by their own government's illegal occupation. If that weren't the case they'd have something besides their own government to complain about, but it isn't so they don't. If Iraq was still in Kuwait and Kuwaitis "shot, bombed, stabbed, and kidnapped" them, who would care?

[Gamblor]

So?
Nobody denied this.

Hitler didn't do DNA testing, and neither do Arabs.

The French don't differ genetically from the English, do they?

I don't see that article, published or otherwise, having any significant consquences.

[Chris Alger]

[ QUOTE ]
Give one example of a "massacre" that didn't start as an attempt to root out terrorists. Perhaps a Palestinian apologist would care to make something up a la Jenin.

[/ QUOTE ]
I've already cited the HRW report on Jenin describing cold-blooded killings of civilians and you're only response was to make bald-faced lies about its content and sources.
[ QUOTE ]
"Failed to follow orders? When your only order is: If you try to kill me, you're not welcome here, I don't see how you can be wrong."

[/ QUOTE ]
Orders issued to enforce illegal roadblocks, checkpoints, "off-limits" areas and curfews.

You want an example? Try Operation Grapes of Wrath, where Israel bombed Lebanese civilians in order to make them refugees in order to put pressure on the Lebanese government. It was described as follows by Avi Shlaim, The Iron Wall (New York: 2001), p. 560: <ul type="square"> “The ultimate target of Operation Grapes of Wrath was Syria. The Israeli military planners and Foreign Minister Ehud Barak ... wanted to stampede the bulk of the civilian population from south to north Lebanon in order to clear the area for a massive strike against Hizbullah and to impose on both Hizbullah and Syria a change in the 1993 rules of the game. Their thinking was based on linkage politics of the cruelest kind. The idea was to put pressure on the civilians of southern Lebanon, for them to pressure the government of Lebanon, for it to pressure the Syrian government, and, finally, for the Syrian government to curb Hizbullah and grant immunity to the IDF in southern Lebanon. In short, the plan was to compel Syria to act as an Israeli gendarme in Lebanon.” [/list] Israel fired some 25,000 shells onto civilian areas, created 400,000 refugees in two weeks and ultimately killed hundreds of civilians. Quite a bit worse, by any measure, than the horrible Haifa bombing of last week, but the mentality is similar. BTW, the operation was a virtual replay of Operation Accountability during the early 1980's.

For other incidents, here's what pops up if you search "Israeli Terrorism" on google. The following is a list from 1947-74, plagiarized from some website so I can't entirley vouche for its accuracy:

1939 Haganah blew up the Iraqi oil pipeline near Haifa. This technique was used again in 1947 at least 4 times.
August 20, 1937 - June 29, 1939 Zionists carried out a series of attacks against Arab buses, resulting in the death of 24 persons and wounding 25 others.
July 22, 1946 Zionist terrorists blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem, which housed the central offices of the civilian administration of the government of Palestine, killing or injuring more than 200 persons. The Irgun officially claimed responsibility for the incident, but subsequent evidence indicated that both the Haganah and the Jewish Agency were involved.
October 1, 1946 The British Embassy in Rome was badly damaged by bomb explosions, for which Irgun claimed responsibility.
June 1947 Letters sent to British Cabinet Ministers were found to contain bombs.
September 3, 1947 A postal bomb addressed to the British War Office exploded in the post office sorting room in London, injuring 2 persons. It was attributed to Irgun or Stern Gangs. (The Sunday Times, Sept. 24, 1972, p.8)
December 11, 1947 Six Arabs were killed and 30 wounded when bombs were thrown from Jewish trucks at Arab buses in Haifa; 12 Arabs were killed and others injured in an attack by armed Zionists on an Arab coastal village near Haifa.
December 13,1947 Zionist terrorists, believed to be members of Irgun Zvai Leumi, killed 18 Arabs and wounded nearly 60 in Jerusalem, Jaffa and Lydda areas. In Jerusalem, bombs were thrown in an Arab market-place near the Damascus Gate; in Jaffa, bombs were thrown into an Arab cafe; in the Arab village of Al Abbasya, near Lydda, 12 Arabs were killed in an attack with mortars and automatic weapons.
December 19, 1947 Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blowing up two houses, in the ruins of which were found the bodies of 10 Arabs, including 5 children. Haganah admitted responsibility for the attack.
December 29, 1947 Two British constables and 11 Arabs were killed and 32 Arabs injured, at the Damascus Gate in Jerusalem when Irgun members threw a bomb from a taxi.
December 30,1947 A mixed force of the Zionist Palmach and the Carmel Brigade attacked the village of Balad al Sheikh, killing more than 60 Arabs.
January 1, 1948 Haganah terrorists attacked a village on the slopes of Mount Carmel; 17 Arabs were killed and 33wounded.
January 4, 1948 Haganah terrorists wearing British Army uniforms penetrated into the center of Jaffa and blew up the Serai (the old Turkish Government House) which was used as a headquarters of the Arab National Committee, killing more than 40 persons and wounding 98 others.
January 5, 1948 The Arab-owned Semiramis Hotel in Jerusalem was blown up, killing 20 persons, among them Viscount de Tapia, the Spanish Consul. Haganah admitted responsibility for this crime.
January 7, 1948 Seventeen Arabs were killed by a bomb at the Jaffa Gate in Jerusalem, 3 of them while trying to escape. Further casualties, including the murder of a British officer near Hebron, were reported from different parts of the country.
January 16, 1948 Zionists blew up three Arab buildings. In the first, 8 children between the ages of 18 months and 12 years, died.
December 13, 1947 -- February 10, 1948 Seven incidents of bomb-tossing at innocent Arab civilians in cafes and markets, killing 138 and wounding 271 others, During this period, there were 9 attacks on Arab buses. Zionists mined passenger trains on at least 4 occasions, killing 93 persons and wounding 161 others.
February 15, 1948 Haganah terrorists attacked an Arab village near Safad, blew up several houses, killing 11 Arabs, including 4 children..
March 3, 1948 Heavy damage was done to the Arab-owned Salam building in Haifa (a 7 story block of apartments and shops) by Zionists who drove an army lorry ( truck) up to the building and escaped before the detonation of 400 Ib. of explosives; casualties numbered 11 Arabs and 3 Armenians killed and 23 injured. The Stern Gang claimed responsibility for the incident.
March 22, 1948 A housing block in Iraq Street in Haifa was blown up killing 17 and injuring 100 others. Four members of the Stern Gang drove two truck-loads of explosives into the street and abandoned the vehicles before the explosion.
March 31, 1948 The Cairo-Haifa Express was mined, for the second time in a month, by an electronically-detonated land mine near Benyamina, killing 40 persons and wounding 60 others.
April 9, 1948 A combined force of Irgun Zvai Leumi and the Stern Gang, supported by the Palmach forces, captured the Arab village of Deir Yassin and killed more than 200 unarmed civilians, including countless women and children.Older men and young women were captured and paraded in chains in the Jewish Quarter of Jerusalem; 20 of the hostages were then shot in the quarry of Gevaat Shaul.
April 16, 1948 Zionists attacked the former British army camp at Tel Litvinsky, killing 90 Arabs there.
April 19, 1948 Fourteen Arabs were killed in a house in Tiberias, which was blown up by Zionist terrorists.
September 17, 1948 Count Folke Bernadotte, UN Mediator in Palestine was assassinated by members of the Stern Gang in the Israeli- controlled sector of Jerusalem. Bernadotte's aide, Col. Serot, was also killed.
November 1948 The Arab villages of Iqrit and Birim were attacked and destroyed, killing and injuring countless unarmed Arabs, including women and children. All the Arabs were forcibly expelled from their homes and land.
1950 Zionist agents threw bombs at a synagogue in Baghdad, Iraq, and other Jewish targets in order to pressure Jews into emigrating to Israel.
August 28, 1953 Armed Israelis attacked the UNRWA refugee camp at Bureij in the Gaza Strip. The Israelis threw grenades through the windows of the huts and gunned down the fleeing refugees, killing 30 and wounding 62 others.
October 14, 1953 The village of Qibiya was attacked by Israeli troops, killing 42 villagers.
July 1954 American and British consular and information offices in Cairo were sabotaged by Israeli agents operating under the Israeli Ministry of Defense.
April 4/5 1956 The Israelis shelled Gaza with 120 mm mortars, killing 56 Arab civilians and wounding 103 others.
January 11, 1952 -- September 25, 1956 Israelis carried out violent raids against Arab villages of Beit Jala, Falame, Rantis, Qibiya, Nahalin, Bani Suhaila, Rahwa, Gharandal, Wadi Fukin (in Palestine and Syria) and refugee camps at Bureij and Gaza in the Gaza Strip, killing 220 Arab civilians.
October 29, 1956 Forty-seven Arab inhabitants, including 7 children and 9 women were massacred by Israeli border guards in the village of Kufr Kassem. The guards arrived and announced that there would be a curfew as of 5 p.m. that very evening. Most of the men were working in the fields and did not know of the curfew. When they returned in the evening, they were summarily shot.
November 3, 1956 The town of Khan Yunis was occupied by Israeli forces. Two hundred and seventy five persons were killed.
November 12, 1956 One hundred and eleven civilians were killed by Israeli forces at Rafah refugee camp.
October 6, 1959 The Egypt-Israel Mixed Armistice Commission condemned Israel for expelling several hundred beduins of the Azazmah tribe from the Nagab.
November 13,1960 A large Israeli force, including tanks and armoured cars, attacked the village of Samu', destroying 125 houses, a school, a clinic; 15 houses were destroyed in another village, killing a total of 18 and wounding 54 others.
1959 -- 1963 Israeli armed forces attacked refugee camps at Rafah and villages at Nuqeib, Rafat and Shaikh Hussein in Syria and Palestine, killing 47 civilians.
June 12, 1967 Four hundred families were evicted from the Moroccan Quarter in Jerusalem, after three hours notice to evacuate their homes. Similar incidents took place at Qalqilya.
June 12, 1967 The villages of Beit Nuba, Yalu and Amwas were razed to the ground after the forced eviction of the population.
June/July 1967 During the June 1967 war, Israeli forces deliberately attacked UNEF Indian staff on 5 occasions, killing 11 and wounding 24. The UN Secretary-General reported that Israeli troops also mistreated UNEF officers and looted their property.
Sptember 4, 1967, September 29, 1967, July 8, 1968, September 8, 1968, May 11, 1969 Israeli artillery shelled residential areas in Ismailia, Suez and Port Said. The Egyptian Government announced that 600 persons were killed and 1000 wounded in Ismailia since the June 1967 war.
February 12, 1970, Isreali planes bombed a factory near Abou Zaabal, Egypt, killing 70 civilian workers and injuring 98 others.
March 31,1970 Israeli planes bombed the city of Mansoura in the Nile Delta, killing 12 civilians and wounding 35 others.
April 8, 1970 Israeli planes bombed the Bahr el Baqar school in Sharkia province, 80 kilometres north of Cairo, killing 46 school children.
March 11, 1971 Thirty four families from the Gaza Strip were expelled to Abou Zuneima, in the Sinai Desert.
August 1, 1971 Israeli military occupation authorities in the Gaza Strip embarked on a house-demolition and terror campaign designed to force the 400,000 Palestinian refugees living in the Strip to move out.
April 28, 1972 An Israeli Piper plane flew over the Arab village of Akraba, spraying a chemical defoliant over the villagers' wheat crops. Previously, the Israeli Army had forcibly confiscated 100,000 dunums of arable land. In May, 1971 the villagers were asked to sell the remaining land. When they refused, their crops were thus destroyed.
July 8, 1972 Ghassan Kanafani, a Palestinian novelist and editor, was killed in Beirut when a bomb planted by Israeli agents exploded in his car. Also killed was his 16 year old niece.
July 18, 1972 Emile Khayyat, a Rif Bank employee in Beirut was seriously injured when a letter bomb sent by Zionist terrorist arm, the Mosad, exploded in his face.
July 19, 1972 In a similar incident, Dr. Anis Sayegh suffered serious injuries to his hands and eyes, in Beirut.
July 25, 1972 Bassam Abou Sharif, a young Palestinian writer in Beirut was seriously wounded when a book bomb exploded.
November 1967 -- September 1972 Over 1500 civilians were killed in Israeli attacks against Arab civilians in villages and refugee camps in Palestine, Jordan , Syria, Lebanon and Egypt.
March 1, 1972, March 9, 1972, September 8, 1972 Israel carried out attacks against civilian areas in Syria, such as Hamma and Maysaloun.
September 12, 1972 Three children died in a Lebanese hospital from wounds inflicted during the attack by Israeli aircraft on the Annahr Al Barid Palestinian refugee camp, bringing the total to 13 from this camp alone.
September 14, 1972 A Los Angeles accountant, Mohammed Shaath, was injured together with one of his children when a bomb planted by Israeli agents exploded in his home.
September 16, 1972 Israeli armoured forces attacked southern Lebanon, pulling out after much destruction of houses and large-scale looting.
September 17, 1972 An Israeli tank deliberately drove over a taxi in southern Lebanon, crushing its 9 passengers into pulp.
January 3, 1970, May 22, 1970, February 27, 1972, September 8, 1972, September 17, 1972 Israelis attacked Arab villages and refugee camps in southern Lebanon.
October 4, 1972 Librairie Palestine, Paris, was damaged by a bomb. Responsibility was claimed by the Massada Movement for Action and Defense, a student organization.
October 16, 1972 Wael Zuaiter, a Palestinian scholar and artist, was gunned down by the Israeli Mossad at his apartment entrance in Rome.
October 25, 1972 Ahmad Wafi, a Palestinian intellectual, was seriously injured in Algiers by an Israeli letter bomb.
October 25, 1972 Mustafa Awad Zaid was blinded and paralyzed in Tripoli and two Libyan passersby were injured as he opened a letter bomb.
October 26, 1972 Two employees of the Import-Export Bank in Beirut were seriously wounded when a letter bomb exploded.
October 26, 1972 An Egyptian police officer who checked three suspicious- looking letters was injured when they exploded.
November 29, 1972 Omar Sufan, representative of Red Crescent in Stockholm lost his fingers when a letter bomb exploded.
November 29, 1972 Adnan Hammad, a Palestinian student leader, was seriously injured in Germany with a letter bomb.
November 29, 1972 Three employees in Tunis Post Office were seriously injured while sorting mail, as a letter bomb exploded.
November 30, 1972 Ahmed Awadallah, a Palestinian student leader in Copenhagen lost his arm when a Mosad-despatched letter bomb exploded.
July 1967 -- December 1972 Israeli armed forces, in acts of collective punishment and reprisal, blew up or bulldozed more than 10,000 homes of Arab civilians in Gaza and the West Bank.
December 8, 1972 Mahmoud Hamshari, a Palestinian leader and intellectual lost a leg and subsequently died, on January 8, when an electronically-detonated bomb installed by the Israeli Mosad, exploded in his house in Paris. Aharon Yariv (an ex Israeli Minister of Information) supervised the execution of the operation, as he was charged with Israeli special operations directed at the Palestinians.
January 25, 1973 Hussein Abul Kheir was killed in Cyprus when a bomb exploded in his hotel room.
February 21, 1973 The northernmost corner of Lebanon was invaded by air and sea-borne Israeli forces, causing the death of 40 Arab civilians.
February 22, 1973 A Libyan civilian airliner was shot down by Israeli fighter aircraft over Sinai, killing 106 passengers and crew.
April 6, 1973 Dr. Bassel Kubaissy, an Iraqi political science professor, was gunned down and killed in a Paris street by the Israeli special forces.
(Kamal Nasser, one of Palestine's foremost poets, was gunned down and killed in his home in Beirut on April 10, 1973 by the Israeli special forces and terror squads. )
April 10, 1973 Palestinian leaders Mohammed Yusuf Najjar, Mrs. Najjar, Kamal Adwan and Kamal Nasser were all gunned down and killed in their homes in Beirut, by the Israeli special forces and terror squads.
May 2, 1973 Mrs. Nada Yashruti, a Palestinian feminist leader and mother of two, was ambushed by three Israeli agents with machine-guns at the entrance to her apartment and killed.
June 29, 1973 Mohammed Boudaiah, an Algerian poet and friend of the Palestinians, was killed when an Israeli-installed bomb exploded in his car in Paris.
July 21, 1973 Ahmed Bouchiki was gunned down by Israeli agents in Oslo. The Israelis admitted responsibility for this crime, which was followed by a court case. In the proceedings, information was revealed linking the Israeli murderers to the killings of Zuaiter, Hamshari, and other Palestinian leaders and intellectuals murdered in Europe.
April 12, 1974 Israeli forces attacked Lebanese villages, killing 2 civilians, destroying 31 houses and kidnapping 13 people.
May 13, 1974 Israeli planes raided Lebanon, killing 4 civilians.
May 16, 1974 Israeli planes raided and bombarded refugee camps in Lebanon, killing 50 civilians and wounding 200, in the Nabatiyeh and Ein-el-Helweh refugee camps. The Nabatiyeh camp was totally obliterated.
May 19, 1974 Israeli naval units bombarded the Rashidiyeh refugee camp, killing 8 civilians.
May 22, 1974 Israeli planes bombed refugee camps in Lebanon, wounding 2 civilians and destroying countless houses.
June 20, 1974 Israeli planes bombed refugee camps in Lebanon, killing 10 civilians and injuring hundreds.
July 8, 1974 Israeli naval units raided Tyre and Saida, sinking 21 fishing boats.
August 7, 1974 Israeli planes bombed southern Lebanese villages.
August 13, 1974 Israeli naval boats shelled refugee camps, killing 1 civilian and wounding 6.
August 25, 1974 Israeli forces shelled villages in southern Lebanon.
September 24, 1974 Israeli forces shelled villages in southern Lebanon.

[Chris Alger]

Historians don't doubt that Deir Yassin started as a military operation, but few of them dispute what happened afterward:

"Whole families were riddled with bullets and grenade fragments and buried when houses were blown up on top of them; men, women, and childen were mowed down as they emerged from houses; individuals were taken aside and shot. ... According ot Jerusaelm Shai commander Levey (repoirting on April 12), 'the conquest of the village was carried out with great crulety. Whole families -- women, old people, children -- were killed, and there were piles of dead [in various places]. Some of the prisoners moved to places of incarceratinon, including women and children, were murdered viciously by their captors.'" Benny Morris, Righteous Victims (New York: 2001), p. 208.

Your source, Uri Millstein, quotes the same reports at length but apparently chose not to believe them or any other reports of "massacres." He nevertheless admits that "[f]amilies were indeed slaughtered .. but mostly during attacks by Jewish forces on Arab villages in the first half of 1948." Morris, p. 706 n. 208.

[brad]

just exaggerating but seriously you did say that no wonder people will make fun of me or something like that if i make these far out accusations or whatever.

which actually is true, its just that the far out claims happen to be based 100% in reality.

[brad]

'Since god created man in his image, no Jew may harm any other human being, unless in self-defence, so as not to deface God's image.'


problem of course is when human being is defined as only a person belonging to your own group.

[brad]

well i dont know all i was saying is that race specific bioweapons exist, (eg, can kill koreans but not japanese) , and that israel ahs them too, but a wrinkle is that semitic jews and semitic arabs (you know what i mean) are genetically identical so that israel has a problem in this regard,

unlike say north korea which is developing / has developed supposedly a caucasian specific bioweapon.

and i posted this simply because although it is unbelievable, it is true and easily verified.

i used these facts in another argument and they werent believed is all, really.

[Gamblor]

problem of course is when human being is defined as only a person belonging to your own group.

Never met anyone who defined it as such, Jew or otherwise.
Israeli soldier, or otherwise.

[Gamblor]

and that israel ahs them too

Where the hell did you get this idea?

[Gamblor]

I've already cited the HRW report on Jenin describing cold-blooded killings of civilians and you're only response was to make bald-faced lies about its content and sources.

I made nothing close to lies.
The only people HRW asked about a massacre was Palestinians. Perhaps if an Israeli had mentioned that his officer had told him to massacre civilians, that would be different. But I forgot. Israelis are amoral liars. Palestinian word is gospel.

was described as follows by Avi Shlaim, The Iron Wall (New York: 2001), p. 560:

Who the [censored] is Avi Shlaim? And what Chiefs of Staff meeting was he sitting in on?

As for the rest of that list, most of those incidents involved some target, and the passive mention that a few civilians died. Show me one that says this: An Israeli pulled out his gun, took a child by the hair, and shot him in the back of the head. Or even: An Israeli plane had orders to aim a bomb at a 80 year old grandmother. After all, in a democratic army, all orders are documented.

Spare me your false accusations.

[Gamblor]

but few of them dispute what happened afterward:

Few does not equal none.

[Chris Alger]

Who is Avi Shlaim? A prominent Israeli diplomatic historian and someone known to nearly everyone that knows a little about this subject. I'm not going to waste more time corresponding with an ignoramus and idiot.

P.S. Demanding absurd degrees of proof does not create a dispute. If you doubt Shlaim's interpretation of events, check out the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs website and read the translations from the contemporary Hewbrew press articles describing the purposes of the operation.

[brad]

wwell historically thats how it was for most groups is what i meant

[brad]

'and that israel ahs them too

Where the hell did you get this idea?
'

look it up. you know israel has had nukes for quite some time too, dont u?

[ChipWrecked]

Anybody else seen this? Figured this would be as good a thread to put this in as any:

www.waragainsttheweak.com (http://www.waragainsttheweak.com)

excerpt:
<font color="red">
Within these pages you will discover the sad truth of how the scientific rationales that drove killer doctors at Auschwitz were first concocted on Long Island at the Carnegie Institution’s eugenic enterprise at Cold Spring Harbor. You will see that during the prewar Hitler regime, the Carnegie Institution, through its Cold Spring Harbor complex, enthusiastically propagandized for the Nazi regime and even distributed anti-Semitic Nazi Party films to American high schools. And you will see the links between the Rockefeller Foundation’s massive financial grants and the German scientific establishment that began the eugenic programs that were finished by Mengele at Auschwitz.

</font>

[brad]

forced sterilization in US until like 1980. (virginia, etc.