Loose games are good but are very loose games better?

[TJD]

Just thinking aloud here. I would appreciate comments. I am not sure I get this.

Clearly we like loose players at the table since they are making a mistake by entering the pot with so many poor hands. They also often compound this error by continuing in the pot when they have insufficient odds to do so. Equally, it is obvious that our variance will be higher at a loose table and even higher still at a very loose table.

However, are we sure that playing at a very loose table is bound to be more profitable? Instinctively, the answer must be yes BUT with more players in preflop, some of their loose calls are not so loose since they are getting better immediate and implied odds. Also, on the flop and beyond with so much extra money in the pot their calls may be either correct or "less of a mistake".

Obviously if, with our better preflop hands, we flop a monster or get a great draw that comes home, then we stand to win a lot of chips. However, with our "solid" preflop hands, in a typical game, most of our profit comes from the much more frequent and less spectacular, top pair best kicker.

In the very loose games though, the "implicit collusion" of all those callers can make us a very solid underdog with all their combined outs. In fact this can be so much so that it is possible that even a bet with TPTK is not for value, despite the number of callers.

I do not have enough statistical data for this but I feel that I have a better win rate if 4-5 see the flop on average than 6-7. I may be wrong, but I do not believe this is because I am failing to adjust my game to the nature of the table.

Any views? They would be appreciated if only to sort me out! /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Trevor

[Mike Gallo]

TJ,

You should earn more money playing in a loose passive game than in a loose aggressive game, a tight aggressive game or a loose agressive game.

Bluff less, value bet more.

I played in a game on Friday night where one player played any two cards and the flop kept hitting him. You should encourage that. Eventually his luck will run dry as well as his chips.

Play your best, adjust your starting hand standards and eventually you will clean up in the game.

Now since more peope have entered the pot, you can play suited connectors and pocket pairs out of postion (as long as the game does not have a lot of raising.

Post some hands and take it from there.

[TJD]

Thanks for reply MG but did you read my post? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I was seeking comparison between loose and VERY loose.

I did not mention aggression in my post. Such games bring greater variance and need a different approach in style and starting hand requirements but that was not my question at this point.

Perhaps if you would like to read my post again, you could formulate a reply to that. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

I do post hands from time to time when I have a specific query. In this case my post was more related to general principles.

Cheers

Trevor

[Allan]

Yes your top pair hands go down in value and they become a little harder to play since you've got to figure out a way to reduce the field and most of the time a single small bet won't do it. Check raising is an important tool. Also this is why you may want to fold something like AJo in this kind of game. Yes, it is a shame that you have to trow away "such a good solid hand" but this is all off set since you get to play stuff like 75s. Also throwing away something that you might play aggressivly could be the best play you might play. Top pair that you flopped out of the blind with say T5o you might choose to get involved in the pot with in a tighter or more typical game, but in a game that features a lot of players in the pot and a lot of chasers you might choose not to get involved. Either your sample size is too small or you aren't making the proper adjustments in the very loose games. These should be cash cows. I'm talking about loose passive games btw....loose aggresive is something different.


Allan

[Mike Haven]

our variance will be higher at a loose table and even higher still at a very loose table

in fact, you answered your own question with this phrase

if you played only in the very loose game (and were a winning player at that type of game) the points of your graph would be something like:

+20
-17
+25
-14
+30
-10
+34
-5
+39
0
+44
+6
+50
+11
+57
etc

once the down-point passes the zero line you are in constant profit, albeit perhaps with wild swings