bad cr? ended up a huge pot

[rkiray]

Paradise 3/6, loose 46% seeing flop, average aggresion.

I'm in sb with A /images/graemlins/club.gif T /images/graemlins/spade.gif

UTG folds, everyone else calls, I said it was loose.

Flop : 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif

checked to co, who bets, everyone except BB calls. I figure i've got way more odds than needed to call with two overcards and not much action.

Turn : T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif [6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif]

I like this card. I check intending to raise. Now I'm screwed. UTG+1 bets. I was hoping the co would be the first to bet, so I could confront most of the field with a double big bet. EP3 calls, MP1 folds, three calls to me who raises. Five calls.

River : 2 /images/graemlins/heart.gif [T /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 6 /images/graemlins/spade.gif 3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif 5 /images/graemlins/club.gif]


I bet, EP2 calls, folded to co who raises, button folds,
and I'm the only caller.

Comments? What did co have?

[pufferfish]

Wow, that’s a lot of turn callers. Not saying it’s better, but I probably would have just bet out on the Turn. I don’t think I’d want to take any chances that it got checked through.

I’ll guess CO had: A4, x4 or 22.

TC,
pf

[Brian]

Hi rkiray,

I wouldn't complete in the SB here on 3/6, but that's just my preference; I also prefer not to get involved with ATo unless I have few opponents. In this case, I would hate to wind up losing a lot of money with what can often amount to a second best hand if an Ace Flops. You can't always be scared of someone limping with AQ or AK, but I would be very weary if the table sometimes has hands this loose/passive. And AJ is always a possibility, as most limp with that.

I would Fold this easily on the Flop. A board like this is bound to have hit someone with something better than one pair (with the whole table playing), and at this point that is all you are drawing to. With no backdoor draws, I think you are quite possibly drawing dead. Even if you weren't, you can easily be counterfeited if you hit on the Turn and another low card comes on the River.

[EDIT]: Is Paradise usually this loose? Or are the games ever even remotely that loose? Party is *really* tightening up lately and I've been considering changing to UB, but maybe Paradise is the place to go. For any of you who read the Internet forum, a couple of people are predicting that the Paradise user base is about to rise drastically as they have started a new marketing campaign.

-Brian

[pufferfish]

While playing this kind of hand can be like threading a needle, I believe it can be profitable, particularly if you have a good table image. Yes, some will say no one pays attention at LL. I believe, online at least, that more than some do and the ones that don’t have a tendency to follow the lead of those that do.

I hope rkiray posts the results because I suspect a 4 nailed him, embarrassing if I’m wrong (probably so).

I posted a $.50/$1 (not $3/$6) hand on Paradise, where I raised PF with JJ. Nine saw the Queen high flop/2 hearts I believe. I bet the flop and turn. The 3rd heart came on the river and two of us checked to the Button who bet. I called and he showed Ace high. It was a big pot.

Maybe I’m full of it or just rambling.

TC,
pf

[jerrybai125]

I would probably fold on the flop, a pair rarely holds up in a game like this with so many callers and a huge pot. CO who bet the flop could easily hold A6 and you would be drawing to one overcard. You could even be drawing dead to someone who made a set. I think CO has 64s or 54s.

[GuyOnTilt]

With the 3/6 blind structure, I would have mucked it preflop with that many limpers and being out of position.

On the flop, I definitely would've folded. You're drawing to 6 outs, none of which you can be completely confident in given the looseness of your table preflop.

On the turn, I like your check planning to check-raise the CO, but once it's bet in EP, I think you're best just to call.

On the river, I think you have a fold to the raise. Your opponent is very unlikely to raise a hand you can beat here, given that the pot is protected.

Basically, I guess I don't like how you played any street.

[Brian]

Hi pufferfish,

Concerning playing ATo at 3/6, remember that the small blind is 1/3rd of a small bet, not 1/2, which may seem insignificant, but I assure you it is not. Would you play ATo in EP? Because that's basically what you are doing when you pay 2/3rds of a small bet to complete here. I wouldn't play this hand in late position for a full bet unless the circumstances were very good, and I certainly wouldn't want to play it against a ton of limpers with awful position.

-Brian

[Brian]

Hey Bright,

We both posted the exact same thing at 10:47 P.M. What a coincidence. Care to have dinner with me sometime? Sincerely,

-Your Stalker

[GuyOnTilt]

I agree. I wouldn't play ATo in the SB at 3/6 or 5/10. I would, however, complete with it at a 1/2 structure, although even then I think it's marginal after 7 limpers. Playing a 15/30 structure, it's an easy call even after that many limpers.

[GuyOnTilt]

Hahaha! I completely forgot I had a stalker on this forum! I'm flattered (I think...), but asking me out on a date is where I draw the line.

[brian0729]

I think you have the odds, but your implied odds dont look very good on this bad flop. I agree with the others that you should probably fold. I think the CO had 44

[Brian]

Bright,

Last night I was playing the Justin Timberlake mp3 "Rock Your Body" (yes, I am ashamed), and my girlfriend walked in and started dancing to the beat. At the same time, I was reading a post on 2+2 to which you had replied, and your avatar was dancing in sync with the music as well. My girlfriend thought that that was very cute. And I can't have my girlfriend thinking someone else is cute. Therefore, you must die. Sincerely,

-Your Stalker

[chesspain]

Did the CO have 44?

[pufferfish]

Yup, you have me there. I wasn’t thinking about the blind structure.

TC,
pf

[gonores]

Meh. Don't get me wrong, I don't think folding is bad here, but at 12.5:1 on the call and 8 opponents, you might have the odds to call and hope for a miracle flop, especially with an ace that might catch a monotone flop. You could probably play the hand for a two-pair or better flop or an Axxr flop.

[Brian]

rkiray? I am curious /images/graemlins/smile.gif

-Brian

[rkiray]

Sorry for not posting results sooner. Since no one replied to the post for three days, I didn't think anyone found the hand interesting. I actually had to go and look the hand up in my database it had been so long. He had 44 for a rivered straight. I guess my check raise didn't scare much. /images/graemlins/cool.gif He certainly had the odds to draw.

[rkiray]

I must admit I don't adapt my sb play for the single chip. I'm not exactly sure what to change. I've read S&M's advice for adapting to the 2 chip, 3 chip blind structure (put in a single chip with almost anything), but I've never read what to do with Paradise's structure. Anyone have suggestions?

[rkiray]

At 2/4 and higher on Paradise alot of people pay attention. There are several plays I've played thousands of hands against, and these players all pay attention. Lots of people either use a database or keep good notes. Sorry I didn't reply to anyone yesterday, but I didn't log on yesterday.

[rkiray]

LOL,

I can't remember anyone replying to me with the classic :

"Misplayed on every street"

Glad I posted this one. I definitely have alot to think about here.

[chesspain]

I win, I win, I win! /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Ed Miller]

I think you should fold on the flop. Your overcards are poor and the board is coordinated.

[rkiray]

OK, I've thought about the misplayed every street. (This also is my reply to several other posters since many of the comments are similar (so I'm probably wrong)).

I admit I probably shouldn't have played preflop and I'm not really sure how to adjust to the 1/3 blind structure. As mentioned earlier I've never seen much written about this in the literature and don't really remember any detailed discussion in these forums about this. Of course I could have easily missed it. May be time for a forum search, but I'm not sure what I'd search for. The most specific advice in this thread is to consider like being UTG, where you are out of position in a multi-way hand. Well I guess I could only complete with a hand that I'd play UTG, but this seems way too tight. Since my questions are buried fairly deep in this thread, I may start a new thread on this specific topic in a day or so. Of course if we get a good discussion going here, I won't have to.

The flop. It's almost unaniamous, I should fold. I don't think so. Generally overcards just need 7:1 pot odds to call. There are already 10 bets in the pot. These guys are loose and so far this hand has been very passive. So I expect I'll get better than 10:1. Also since this table is so loose I think I've got very good implied odds. If I hit my hand I expect several of then to pay me off. Majorkong suggests my overcards arn't that good. Why? I think it very likey that anyone with a bigger A would have raised preflop, so I thought I was good with either an A or T. Of course this turned out to be incorrect.

I think my turn play is definitely correct. This is a big pot, so I want to maximize my chances of winning it. If the flop bet would have come from my left I would have bet hoping the bettor would raise. Since the bet came from my right, I think the check raise is the best play.

I probably should have checked the river, but I think it's a close decision.

[rkiray]

My question is, why didn't he raise the river?

[ajizzle]

CO caught his open ender on the river. i think he has A4, K4 or Q4s. Somethig like that. He could also have a suited connector like 45s. I don't think there's a good chance to win here, but top pair/top kicker is often good enough in these loose games to warrant a call.

[rkiray]

On the river, I would normally just check and call. This assumes that no one with a worse hand than me would call. But since this was a very loose game, I thought someone with a worse hand may call, so I went ahead and bet the river. Perhaps this was a mistake on my part.