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View Full Version : Why do you play for a living?


Redhotman
10-09-2003, 09:33 PM
I am in college right now and play online alot as my only source of income. I am making good money and I love playing for the most part.

It obviously takes an incredibly smart and controlled player to make $30+/hr. Working 40hr/wk this comes to $1200/wk (not including taxes). Considering the stamina and intelligence of a poker player I am curious as to why you play poker as opposed to working a college education job where. The average bach. degree job pays about 50,000/yr.

I am just curious as to why you play poker? Never went to college and just fell into it? I know the emphasis of college is alot higher in my generation than many of yours.

Dynasty
10-09-2003, 09:36 PM
It's interesting that the entire focus of your post is on money.

1800GAMBLER
10-09-2003, 09:52 PM
I work for the Inland Revenue, can i still be a punk?

Homer
10-09-2003, 09:58 PM
The average bach. degree job pays about 50,000/yr.

Not true.

daryn
10-09-2003, 10:28 PM
why is it that i feel my BS degree will be worthless? i don't know.. to answer your question, i enjoy playing poker, i enjoy outsmarting people. i would NOT enjoy working a 9-5 jail cell corporate job, regardless of pay.

leon
10-09-2003, 11:09 PM
I play for money, fun and the enjoyment of competition. I'm an MD but I make absolutely nothing right now- less than minimum wage with the hours I work. And when I finally start making a real salary I will be 150K in debt.

I currently make more playing poker than I make at my "real" job. Between my salary and poker I don't hurt for money. Before poker helped pay for medical school.

So for me it's a combo of money and enjoyment. The pros out there probably wouldn't rather be doing anything else. I know I'd rather play poker than go to the hospital. There's just more job security in the long run there for me, plus it would be kind of a waste of my degree /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Leon

Acesover8s
10-10-2003, 03:37 AM
I play for a living because very few places hire ex-cons.

Kurn, son of Mogh
10-10-2003, 08:16 AM
I am just curious as to why you play poker? Never went to college and just fell into it? I know the emphasis of college is alot higher in my generation than many of yours.

This gets my vote for the single most ignorant statement ever made on this board. ROFLMAO.

Greg (FossilMan)
10-10-2003, 10:46 AM
There aren't all that many people here who play for a living. There are a lot of us who play for a profit, and even file taxes as professionals, but few who RELY upon that money to pay the bills and feed themselves.

Why does anyone do what they do for a living? There are as many answers as there are people.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

J_V
10-10-2003, 10:53 AM
Really? Would you PM the story if it's true?

J.R.
10-10-2003, 11:54 AM
I live to play.

Zele
10-10-2003, 05:10 PM
9-5? No, you're thinking of one of those cushy union jobs, maybe welder or electrician, not a white-collar serf job. Try 7-7.

----------------------------------------------------------
"Wake up the damn Bambino. I'll drill him in the ass." -PM

Dynasty
10-10-2003, 06:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I know the emphasis of college is alot higher in my generation than many of yours.

This gets my vote for the single most ignorant statement ever made on this board. ROFLMAO.

[/ QUOTE ]

The statement in bold sounds very true to me. There are many posters on this board who come from a generation where it was expected they could graduate high school, get a 9-5 job (usually manual labor), and expect to support their family with a good middle class living with just that one source of income.

offTopic
10-10-2003, 09:06 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I am just curious as to why you play poker? Never went to college and just fell into it? I know the emphasis of college is alot higher in my generation than many of yours.

This gets my vote for the single most ignorant statement ever made on this board. ROFLMAO.

[/ QUOTE ]

I found the OP's statement a little difficult to parse, but if I read it correctly, I'm wondering why you think it's ignorant?

Do you think that he is ignorant of expectations of the current generation's expected level of education vs. earlier generations, or that he is ignorant of the age of the "typical" poster on the fora at this site?

TobDog
10-10-2003, 10:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
There are many posters on this board who come from a generation where it was expected they could graduate high school, get a 9-5 job (usually manual labor), and expect to support their family with a good middle class living with just that one source of income

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha Ha, try living in Southern Cali. on that, you ned 2 working incomes and some side job(poker) income just to affort the rent and a car, and good luck owning here, if the market keeps going up like it has(it won't, just naking it dramatic) none of you college guys will be able to get out of renting and into a house unless your rich uncle dies and leaves you the down payment.

Brian
10-11-2003, 12:06 AM

PokerBabe(aka)
10-11-2003, 12:06 AM
Redhot....I have a master's degree and did post master's work toward a Ph.D. I made over 100K a year in the brokerage business for many years. I would never ever underestimate the value of a college education, and I am sure it was a significant factor in my success.

However, there are few occupations that allow the flexibility that professional poker playing does. And, you know, poker is not nearly as stressful as my last position.

As for the money, it's all relative, anyway. I have taken a huge "paycut" by retiring from a "job", and, despite that, I am thrilled to be able to finally enjoy myself without fear of being sued by some unhappy client.

So, why do I play poker? Well, it's FUN AND PROFITABLE. If it becomes non-fun and non-profitable, I guess I could always get a "job" making 50k a year /images/graemlins/frown.gif

LGPG,

Babe /images/graemlins/heart.gif

daryn
10-11-2003, 12:34 AM
this is just insane. if people really work 7-7.. what a waste of life.

by the way, nice quote

Warren Whitmore
10-11-2003, 10:15 AM
Very inspirational and positive. Thank You

TobDog
10-11-2003, 11:22 AM
Real people do work 7-7 and more. Thursday I had to be at work at 5:30 and wraped up my day and left the parking lot at about 6:30-6:45. Now my work is not typical, but anyone who owns a business knows that the clock is not important, getting your work done is, if you don't do it and noone else knows how, you have to do it.

Redhotman
10-11-2003, 02:00 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I am just curious as to why you play poker? Never went to college and just fell into it? I know the emphasis of college is alot higher in my generation than many of yours.

This gets my vote for the single most ignorant statement ever made on this board. ROFLMAO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Kurn,
I have read alot of your posts and have alot of respect for you as a poker player but I dont understand why you think this statement is ignorant?
Is it because I said "fall into it"- implying that you can just become a professional overnight or because you feel a poker player must have a deep seeding love for the game?

I would appreciate it if you would provide me with alittle insight.

Redhotman
10-11-2003, 02:07 PM
The general answer I got from everyone is that you simply love playing poker and the freedom it provides you to be your own boss and determine your own salary by your ability to play.

Right now I am strongly considering becoming a Nurse Practitionist. Starting salary begins at $30/hr. Go to work part time/full time. When your shift is up you leave and do not have to take any part of the job with you and can easily travel to any city in the world knowing you can find work.

I too wish to avoid the "dead end prison", however, one might say sitting infront of a computer looking at digital cards 8 hours a day is also a prison.

Obviously, each person in life has to find his own passion in life and follow it. I think its great that some of you have found your passion in poker.

Kurn, son of Mogh
10-11-2003, 03:24 PM
First, if you've read this board for enough time you'd realize that the vast majority of successful posters here are highly educated people. Many well-known players (Brunson, Ferguson, etc.) are college grad or beyond.

Second, the reason a college education is stressed so much more now than in the 60's or 70's, is that it has LESS value, not more. A BA in 2003 is the equivalent in earning power that a HS diploma was in 1960 and likely what an 8th grade education was in 1930.

There was an episode of the Tomorrow Show in 1978 where Tom Snyder had John Silber (the cantankerous and always controversial Boston U. President) as a guest. Silber read a list of graduation requirement that sounded tough and asked Snyder if he thought those were reasonable to ask of college grads. After Snyder expressed his reservations about how stringent the requirements sounded, Silber revealed that they were the minimum requirement to graduate from High School in North Carolina in 1929.

To me your post sounded arrogant, and ignorant (not stupid, ignorant, meaning you were unaware of certain facts) because it seemed you were making an incorrect assumption about poker pros as a whole, and another incorrect assumption about *why* there's more stress on college today then when, say, I got out of High School in 1969.

For the record, as Greg suggested about many poker players, I play poker for profit and as a second income and have a BA in English and Religion and an MBA in Finance. I am also living proof that a whole lot of education certainly won't guarantee riches. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

daryn
10-11-2003, 11:35 PM
i weep for you, seriously.

TobDog
10-12-2003, 06:01 PM
Got one better for you.

My wife and I were going to adopt (we are both 31) she now wants to adopt 4 kids 11, 5, 2, 10mo, OUCH. Will I ever sleep???

AcesUp
10-12-2003, 06:20 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i weep for you, seriously.

[/ QUOTE ]

I assume this refers to the "working 7-7" comments...

Keep in mind that some people actually enjoy their jobs, whether that encompasses playing poker or working the corporate job 80 hours/week.

I work, on average, 60 hours/week. To you, that may be cause for sympathy. But, I love my job, love creating products that hundreds of millions of people use, and love the satisfaction (and money and freedom) that comes with being "successful."

I have enough money saved that I could play poker for the rest of my life, or even semi-retire for the rest of my life. But, to be honest, I would be a lot less happy if I did that.

Don't assume that everyone that works a typical blue-collar or white-collar job hates what they do and is miserable. You might be surprised...

daryn
10-12-2003, 07:55 PM
you know what, i would be surprised. everyone i ever hear of who hits the lottery big time and decided to keep thier job is a friggin idiot.

i guess if what you love to do is work, then work. i am not here to tell you what to do. i just think it is stupid. some people just seem to have a need to feel like they are important, and if doing whatever you do makes you feel this way, i congratulate you

Redhotman
10-12-2003, 09:55 PM
You are correct. I did not realize that a college diploma in the year 2K is the equvilant of what a highschool diploma was worth back then.

I wasnt trying to be arrogant. I enjoy playing, but the idea of playing for a living would sort of take some of the fun out of it for me. It wouldnt be a hobby anymore, but your job.

AcesUp
10-13-2003, 12:08 AM
[ QUOTE ]
i guess if what you love to do is work, then work. i am not here to tell you what to do. i just think it is stupid.

[/ QUOTE ]

Is there anything you enjoy doing? Playing poker perhaps? If you were to do it 40 hours/week, would you immediately deem it "not fun," because it has suddenly become "work" or "a job."

Just because you derive income from something doesn't automatically mean that it ceases to be fun to do.

My "corporate" job is in many ways analogous to poker, but on a completely different scale (millions and even billions of dollars at risk as opposed to hundreds or thousands). It involves strategy, negotiation, risk-taking, and the ability to read your "opponents." While I can't set my own hours and take months off at a time, it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the job.

Likewise, I have friends that own their own businesses that love the "thrill of the game." I have a friend who is a professional painter who works about 80 hours/week, and loves every minute of it. My boss owns his own jet and could retire in a heartbeat, but doesn't because what he does enriches his life more than if he weren't doing it.

Perhaps your job is miserable (perhaps even your life is), but don't assume that because you don't enjoy doing what you get paid for, that others don't either.

Clarkmeister
10-13-2003, 12:17 AM
You are totally changing the subject. His initial post stated that there was more *emphasis* on getting a college education now than in generations past. That is undeniably true.

daryn
10-13-2003, 12:30 AM
need i reiterate my statement?????????

Kurn, son of Mogh
10-13-2003, 11:12 AM
My reply was based upon my perception of the overall tone of the post and to the context of the "emphasis" statement. I was less changing the subject than going off on a rant, which I am wont to do. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

He said:

I am just curious as to why you play poker? Never went to college and just fell into it? I know the emphasis of college is alot higher in my generation than many of yours.

I read this as meaning, "couldn't make enough money because you didn't go to college?" "Maybe your folks weren't as enlightened as we are currently and didn't push you hard enough?"

Now, as of this point, the original poster has convinced me that is not what he meant.

You said:

His initial post stated that there was more *emphasis* on getting a college education now than in generations past. That is undeniably true.

And I believe Dynasty also pointed this out to me. I did not dispute this as fact. I was placing the fact into context.

If we follow the reasoning of the original statement out (i.e., the conclusion is that past generations played poker because of lack of marketable job skills), the conclusion might be, 'now that more people go to college, fewer people will play poker for a living'. This is an erroneous conclusion. Just because more people today have attended college does not necessarily mean that there will be less need or desire to play poker either as a sole-source of income or as an income-augmenting sideline.

In fact, we may all be missing the point of poker as a hobby. For those who are break-even or even moderately losing players, poker may also serve as a hobby that is actually less expensive than golf or skiing. But that *is* changing the subject.

AmericanAirlines
10-13-2003, 07:43 PM
Just a thought Redhot,
Playing poker is *still* trading the hours of your life for an income. It has no leverage at all. So eventually it may become the prison you wish to avoid in way. Perhap just a cage of different construction.

To me the only real freedom is to be wealthy enough to be in the liesure class and not *have* to work at all. Then you can become President or Governor of CA for fun.

Accept it. If you aren't in the leisure class, and don't get there somehow, the vast majority of your life *will* be spent chasing the buck. Unless of course you decide to drop out and just be a bum. But then you'll still be chasing survival.

Sincerely,
AA

AmericanAirlines
10-13-2003, 07:50 PM
Hi AcesUp,
From the sounds of it, *your* corp. job isn't the "average" corp. job either.

If I could afford my own jet from *my* corp. job, I'd be very happy with my job. I promise.

My father worked at Pratt & Whitney aircraft his whole life on space shuttle and SR-71 work. He could never really afford to fly.

Now if *my* corporate job was this way, I might be happy too:

"My "corporate" job is in many ways analogous to poker, but on a completely different scale (millions and even billions of dollars at risk as opposed to hundreds or thousands). It involves strategy, negotiation, risk-taking, and the ability to read your "opponents." While I can't set my own hours and take months off at a time, it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the job."

But most of us are stuck in sub 6 Figure bracket and will work 'till we retire... then die.

Sincerely,
AA

Tommy Angelo
10-13-2003, 08:33 PM
"I am just curious as to why you play poker [for a living]?"

No employees, employer, or reliance. No unchosen obligations on my time. Enough money to pretty much go anywhere I want whenever I want and do whatever I want. And besides all that, I don't know how to do anything else. What was the question again? :-)


Tommy

warlockjd
10-13-2003, 08:48 PM
After wasting 5 miserable years in Corptopia, I found something that I love to do that pays better, also. The office politics and I were not a good mix, and I was never challenged, and mostly bored. With poker, I am constantly learning and am challenged every day. I also love the flexibility built in to my 'schedule.' But, if poker ever gets boring, I can fall back on my Accounting and Finance degrees, bleh.

Jeffage
10-13-2003, 10:11 PM
I hope you are right, but don't you think a huge hole in your work experience on the resume could prevent some problems?

Just curious,

Jeff

AcesUp
10-14-2003, 12:57 AM
While I give you that I don't have a typical job, I started as a typical engineer/computer programmer for typical technology companies. I pushed my career in the direction I wanted to go, I continued my education to suit my career goals, and I worked hard.

I've loved every job I've ever had in my field, and I would have quickly switched jobs (or professions) had I not.

This includes those days when I was deep in debt, making very little money, and working the 9am-5pm gig as just another "techie".

I wouldn't consider myself smarter than many of the other posters on the board; I wouldn't consider myself luckier than the average hard-working professional. I simply made sure that at all times I was doing what I was good at and what I enjoyed.

That's a recipe for success that I imagine 90% of the readers of this board could follow and succeed. Of course, not everyone will follow that recipe, and not everyone will succeed in doing what they love. Perhaps they were pushed into a career or profession that they wouldn't have otherwise chosen. Perhaps they didn't persevere when things got tough. Perhaps they "settled."

For whatever reason, too many people choose to spend 8 (or 10 or 12) hours a day doing something they don't enjoy. In this country (the United States), that's a decision, not a destiny.

To anyone who says choosing to work is stupid or miserable, my suggestion is to find another career...

Tyler Durden
10-14-2003, 01:24 AM
[ QUOTE ]
don't you think a huge hole in your work experience on the resume could prevent some problems?


[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mean this could cause some problems?

Tyler Durden
10-14-2003, 01:30 AM

warlockjd
10-14-2003, 08:50 AM
Good Point, Jeffage.

However, there are a myriad of things that come up in life such as sabatical (sp?), starting my own business, travelling overseas, etc that I could use as 'filler.' I seriously doubt that it will come to that, but I do know that I would be hardpressed to find something that I would trade for my newfound happiness and sense of personal freedom.

Thanks for the concern /images/graemlins/cool.gif

daryn
10-14-2003, 01:51 PM
who says everyone needs a "career"?

AmericanAirlines
10-14-2003, 02:51 PM
Hi AcesUp,
I used to believe in that hard work thing you speak of. But if that's all it took, 90% of everyone *would* be where they want to be.

I've met very few working class people who are lazy, at least at the start. It's after they see the game players move ahead, while they get stuck that the attitude shift comes. For some earlier than others no doubt.

I know I'm right, worked for at least 8 or so Fortune 500's over the last 20 years. Been in Gov't too. Been through upper education, never worked in it though. Started a business at one time too. So I think I've seen plenty of facets of the situation.

The bottom line is, you don't always get to pick something you both love and can make a goo living at. Consider how many kids want to be rock stars. How many will really ever get there? More this side of reality, how many more wanna be airline pilots are there than planes? Etc. All the known "hot jobs" are this way. And worse, the ones that don't make it get stuck in low paying jobs. Consider what a Regional Pilot or Crop Duster makes v. "Pilot in Command for Big Wings Airlines". Hollywood is the same. Big names make a fortune. Average actor income across all actors? $3,000 a year.

You see the culture in America is such that if you actually work for a living, you essentially seen as a dummy. Yet opportunities for the truly "hot jobs" aren't that plentiful and are often given out according to some scheme other than "hard work gets the bacon". It's often political, nepotistic etc.

As an aside, "switching careers" isn't all that easy. To get to a good level in most carreers is a minumum 10 year process.

Consider if I wanted to switch over to say, Law (since I dropped out of Law School once). I'd have to come up with funds for 3 years of school + living expenses. Then, assuming the old order was still in place... 7 more years to make partner (doesn't always go that way anymore).

So there's your 10 years to recareer.

Medicine would be even longer.

So when folks read "Make 100,000 a year gambling" they're all for it. Until they try it.

No flames intended here. Just trying to get people to see reality who maybe got somewhere good smoothly. The reality being that for most, it doesn't go that way. And to my eyes, it's by design.

Those of you who did get somewhere fairly straight forwardly seem to not even know this. It's as though some great illusion about "how great the system is" sets in.

Trust me, I've worked every bit as hard as you. I know what I'm talking about.

Sincerely,
AA

P.S. Just as an aside. Do you really believe the janitor or the garbage man *really* would keep doing those jobs if they felt they had better alternatives? Sorry dude, folks *do* get pigeon holed at times.

Paluka
10-14-2003, 03:40 PM
[ QUOTE ]
you know what, i would be surprised. everyone i ever hear of who hits the lottery big time and decided to keep thier job is a friggin idiot.

i guess if what you love to do is work, then work. i am not here to tell you what to do. i just think it is stupid. some people just seem to have a need to feel like they are important, and if doing whatever you do makes you feel this way, i congratulate you

[/ QUOTE ]

I find this post to be close-minded to the point where I'm actually offended. You think everyone who has a job is slaving away doing something they hate just to scrape by. There are some people who enjoy their jobs, but not because they like "working" as you put it. Maybe they like building things, or teaching kids to read, or painting or whatever. Maybe they really like their co-workers, or the people they meet while working. Maybe they weren't born with the same brains/money/opportunity as most 2+2ers and they are just grateful to have jobs that let them make the money which allows them to enjoy the rest of their lives. Maybe you should appreciate the fact that you get to to to college and are smart enough to play low limit poker rather than insult those who have to or choose to work for a living.

tiltboy
10-14-2003, 04:32 PM
There are many factors at play here IMO daryn. One is likely what is sometimes known as the Protestant work ethic, a tenet of which is that there is a moral value to work. This is the idea that we are better off as a society when members of the society work. Another factor is that people often associate much of their self-worth with the job they do, even if that job is something menial. Finally, there is the idea that people feel they are actually making a difference performing their job. I like to think I fall into this category. I quit being a CPA many years ago even though the pay was good and prospects were better because I HATED it. I am a teacher now and I like to think I make a difference in people's lives because of it. I still hear from students I had a decade ago, keeping me informed on what they are doing, and this gives me a great deal of satisfaction. I don't know what I would do if I won the lottery (not much chance of that happening though since I consider it a tax on the mathematically-challenged) but you would probably end up thinking I was friggin idiot too because I would likely keep the day job.

I've also seen some studies of lottery winners and many end up poorer than they were before they won, for whatever that is worth.

Dam, this sure was a serious answer to a somewhat frivilous post, but at least I didn't personally attack anyone in it.

Jeffage
10-14-2003, 05:32 PM
LOL yea. I was a little tired /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Jeff

daryn
10-14-2003, 06:01 PM
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
Maybe you should appreciate the fact that you get to to to college and are smart enough to play low limit poker rather than insult those who have to or choose to work for a living.

[/ QUOTE ]

nope, sorry.

ppr
10-14-2003, 09:45 PM
people are lazy.

Kurn, son of Mogh
10-15-2003, 10:01 AM
I've met very few working class people who are lazy

This is ludicrous. People are lazy by nature. It's the "go-getter" who's the aberration. Class is irrelevant. Give evrybody the option of working half the time for the same money and see how many would say "no thanks."

The bottom line is, you don't always get to pick something you both love and can make a good living at.

No sh*t. That's life. Get over it.

You see the culture in America is such that if you actually work for a living, you essentially seen as a dummy.

By whom? Welfare leeches maybe, but not by other honest people who understand basic concepts like resposibility.

As an aside, "switching careers" isn't all that easy.

Why is *anything* supposed to be easy?

Those of you who did get somewhere fairly straight forwardly seem to not even know this.

Where is this "somewhere" you're trying to get? I thought life was a journey, not a destination (OK, sue me for being corny and trite /images/graemlins/wink.gif)

Trust me, I've worked every bit as hard as you. I know what I'm talking about.

All you know is you're not happy. All I know is you're a "glass half empty" person. You know, I wouldn't trade my life for Schwarzeneggar's, or anybody else's for that matter. And I probably have less than you do. Guess you just gotta be comfortable in your own skin.

daryn
10-15-2003, 10:29 AM
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
Give evrybody the option of working half the time for the same money and see how many would say "no thanks."

[/ QUOTE ]


are you serious? yeah.. maybe if my job was banging hot broads all day long, i wouldn't want to work half the time for the same money...

MRBAA
10-16-2003, 01:14 PM
Based solely on this thread, I'd lay 90% likelihood of some severe punishment to come in life for Daryn, 10% he'll be wildly successful.

daryn
10-16-2003, 06:32 PM
i'm already successful buddy, sorry to shatter your wish to see me fail for some reason.

SinCityGuy
10-19-2003, 05:50 AM
As one who just quit my fulltime job to play professionally, here are the primary reasons why I did so. First, while I was still employed, I kept detailed, meticulous records of my play over 2,000 hours to prove that I could make a comfortable living playing poker. I can beat the local mid-limit games (10/20, 15/30) for 1.5 BB per hour, and I can play 40 to 50 hours per week without getting burned out.

Being responsible for my own actions and not accountable for my co-workers’ incompetence is at the top of the list. I don’t have to bust my ass, only to see my hard work ignored and taken for granted. I don’t have to feel bad about what I do, as opposed to being a pawn in a corrupt system.

My time is my own – I choose when I want to work, what hours I want to work, and when I want to take a vacation.

It’s definitely not for everyone, but if you have the desire, discipline, motivation and consistency to succeed, the possibilities are limitless.