RNG Question

[Header]

If anybody can answer this I would appreciate it.

The question is about the random number generator when playing hold em on line. When the first two cards are dealt out to all of the participating players, has the RNG defined the order of the remaining portion of the deck at this point ie the flop, turn, and river. Or for instance will it decide what the flop will be based on at the exact point that the Big Blind checks (Assuming he does check and no raises) also (Assuming that time is the seed for the random number).

I would feel more happy if the deck was defined for the whole hand when it is initially dealt as this is what happens in a card room. Any comments appreciated.

[tj00]

This question was asked on the internet forum. They were pretty sure all the cards are predetermined before they are delt.

[ajizzle]

I have not [censored] idea, nor do I really care. I trust that it is all random on all streets, and that is sufficient for me.

[Eihli]

The partypoker website describes how their RNG works. It makes a 52 card deck and deals from the top before each hand.

[ThingDo]

Who cares??? If you are worried about poinltess [censored] like that, you probably aren't concentrating on the rest of your game. Put this in another forum.

[BigEndian]

Wow, ok, maybe it isn't in the right forum. But there are better ways to ask him to post it elsewhere.

Little too much anger.

- Groove

[edit] As an aside, it's something that merits thought. (http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/entdev/article.php/616221)

[jbc]

[ QUOTE ]
If anybody can answer this I would appreciate it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll put in $.02.

[ QUOTE ]

I would feel more happy if the deck was defined for the whole hand when it is initially dealt as this is what happens in a card room. Any comments appreciated.



[/ QUOTE ]

You're assumptions are correct header. Any poker or other casino gaming site worth its salt will deal cards in the manner you've described. Don't want to geek out on the list, but I work on nerdy issues like this at work fairly regularly, so if you have other questions about this (not any specific site - not familiar with any of the individual implementations, just crypto and effect RNG in general), fire off a private msg.

jbc

[tpir90036]

who cares? random is random. each remaining card still has the same chance of coming up.

i would actually be more uncomfortable with a predetermined deck as someone could theoretically cheat that more easily than a constant shuffler.

if i am reading it correctly, i think that ultimatebet continuously shuffles:

http://www.ultimatebet.com/trust/rng.html

so if you play there just pretend it's predetermined. it's the same thing.

[robspierre]

Not sure why you're getting flamed....seemed like a legit question. This place is slowly turning into RGP. The answer to your question is yes.

The process works something like this...all cards in the deck are given a numeric value 0-51 (order at this point doesn't matter) I would assume that they use the standard diamonds, clubs, hearts, spaces order. The algorithms I have worked on do. So you have

0 - 2D
1 - 3D
2 - 4D
...
51 - AS

What happens next is that a random (albeit debatable term) number is generated between 0-51 and that card is placed into a new or empty deck (array, table, buffer, whatever). Then another random number between 0-51 is selected (which by the way cannot equal any previous number chosen randomly) and that card is placed into the "new" deck and so on and so forth until the new deck is filled. At that point you have a "shuffled" deck in an order that stays the same throughout the hand. Hope that helps.

[jbc]

[ QUOTE ]

if i am reading it correctly, i think that ultimatebet continuously shuffles:

http://www.ultimatebet.com/trust/rng.html

so if you play there just pretend it's predetermined. it's the same thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

This interested me so I checked with UB's support. According to them:

>Cards are randomly dealt at each step of the way. Your opponent taking 10 >seconds verses 11 seconds to make his move will affect the next card
>being dealt. This makes it truly impossible for
>anyone to determine what the next card to be dealt is.

Not what I expected but pretty interesting, randomizing every card vs. prepopulating the deck.

jbc
"that's a lotta nuts!"

[tpir90036]

i think the major poker sites have algorithms a little more complex than that. and not all of them are predetermined. well, at least one of them isn't /images/graemlins/wink.gif check my post earlier for the link to ultimatebet's description. interesting stuff....

cheers!

[Header]

Thanks for all of the responces, I will check out the UB link personally I play at Ladbrokes so I will have to try and find out if they poulate the entire deck initially or not, when I find out I will let you know.